Mark Schultz thread on other site.

[grapplefan]

Originally Posted by COL66 this is going a little off the topic, but whatever.... sure it's possible, quick. but when all three of your previously mentioned categories are a recurring pattern in one's life, it's only logical to accept responsability at some point, and to think, 'hey, maybe i'm the one that's attracting all of these negative occurrences.' but again, i have never suffered a family death at a relatively young age. i'm sure i would lose all rational thinking if such thing happened. allow me to play devils advocate --- Saitiev, mango, and gable both had similar events occur in their lives. it seems that their loses pushed them to become better men.

Give the guy a break. He was a great wrestler and a fine coach. Stuff happens. I give credit to anyone who has the courage to hang their life out for target practice on the Mat forum.

[COL66]

exactly, so if he wants to put it out for discussion on a forum, let's discuss it.

grapple fan -- it seems that you are missing the point. he is not demonstrating 'courage', there seems to a commonality of 'external factors' justifying his failings in life.

to me, 'courage' is gruwenweld coming on a forum to say 'usa, sorry i was not able to qualify the weight class', even though the dude suffered a broken shoulder in the attempt.

[grapplefan]

Its a forum, its not a therapist. Some kindness is in order.

Not qualifying is one thing. A whole life in wrestling is another. He may, as you suggest, have a habit of justifying his failings in life. But you have to put those failures in context with his successes. This is a guy who lost his program, his job, his health, and his brother. You don't see many other wrestlers of that caliber (or anyone else) opening themselves up so candidly for questions about a whole career.

[DingoBrigade]

I don't think any of us have walked in his shoes and you don't accomplish what he's accomplished by lacking courage or not ever taking responsibility. I can't speak to his other incidents, but I can tell you the MMA thing is very likely not his fault. The person he dealt with, Antonio Inoki, is a consummate promoter (and I don't mean that in an entirely positive sense) and has mixed pro-wrestling, 'worked' fights, and real fights in the past. I think it does say something about Mark's values that he wants the official record to show that he did not participate in a legitimate, above-board match with Leopoldo Montenegro.

All of us have made mistakes, but few of us have represented our country with such excellence and hard work. I wish the people with bones to pick with him would leave him alone.

[quick_single]

Originally Posted by COL66 this is going a little off the topic, but whatever.... sure it's possible, quick. but when all three of your previously mentioned categories are a recurring pattern in one's life, it's only logical to accept responsability at some point, and to think, 'hey, maybe i'm the one that's attracting all of these negative occurrences.' but again, i have never suffered a family death at a relatively young age. i'm sure i would lose all rational thinking if such thing happened. allow me to play devils advocate --- Saitiev, mango, and gable both had similar events occur in their lives. it seems that their loses pushed them to become better men.

Maybe, but maybe those guys had better people behind them. Some people are self motivated, others may require a support system. Mark might be the latter.

Dave's death affects people to this day, imagine what affect it had on his younger brother who was his soul mate. Mark claims Dave made him who he was. Imagine to have that taken from you in such a senseless way. I don't think you would rebound so easily. I know I wouldn't. To wake up every day knowing that your soul mate is no longer there and there is nothing you can do to get him back. Yeah sure some people can overcome that. Some can't. I imagine what Mark needed at that time was some strong family support and some good psychotherapy. I don't think he got it and from what I understand he didn't get along with Nancy all that well. What most likely happened was that he was in a dark place and reached out to the wrong people who ultimately took advantage of him. Sure maybe it's his fault for surrounding himself with those people, but I'm sure he was just in need of some support and made the wrong decisions. Once you are in this kind of mental state and bad shit keeps happening to you, regardless of why or how, it's simply a downward spiral and very difficult to bounce back.

Anyway, I don't know Mark from a hole in the wall but that's just my 2 cents.

And I have a ton of respect for Gruenwald but his name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Mark Schultz. You crazy?

[Tight-Waist]

Lets hope he keeps posting. But if he doesnt who could blame him? What point is there in trying to embarass a guy who's just there to answer questions? It not like he's OJ and deserves to be hot seated. Lets not kill the goose who's laying golden eggs here folks.

[MOJO]

Originally Posted by quick_single Maybe, but maybe those guys had better people behind them. Some people are self motivated, others may require a support system. Mark might be the latter. Dave's death affects people to this day, imagine what affect it had on his younger brother who was his soul mate. Mark claims Dave made him who he was. Imagine to have that taken from you in such a senseless way. I don't think you would rebound so easily. I know I wouldn't. To wake up every day knowing that your soul mate is no longer there and there is nothing you can do to get him back. Yeah sure some people can overcome that. Some can't. I imagine what Mark needed at that time was some strong family support and some good psychotherapy. I don't think he got it and from what I understand he didn't get along with Nancy all that well. What most likely happened was that he was in a dark place and reached out to the wrong people who ultimately took advantage of him. Sure maybe it's his fault for surrounding himself with those people, but I'm sure he was just in need of some support and made the wrong decisions. Once you are in this kind of mental state and bad shit keeps happening to you, regardless of why or how, it's simply a downward spiral and very difficult to bounce back. Anyway, I don't know Mark from a hole in the wall but that's just my 2 cents. And I have a ton of respect for Gruenwald but his name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Mark Schultz. You crazy?

Brother QS,
I think you are spot on here bro. Did you attend Dave's memorial @ Penn? Seeing Mark there would validate your thoughts.

[arm-spin]

I only read the wrestling parts of the Mark Schultz thread. Seems the wrestling part of his career was an incredible sucess.. 3 gold medals is it?.. fwhat exactly are the "failings" that Schultz underwent? (I honestly don't know.)

BTW I can't imagine having the balls to let anyone discuss my private life on the internet. Geez.

[pm01]

Originally Posted by MOJO Wrestling Talk Brothers and Sisters, Don't want to get into the habit of advertising for "brand X", but for anyone who is not aware, Mark Schultz (under the screen name "Martial",) started a great thread on the College board titled: Ask Mark Schultz Anything" and he pretty much has kept to his word, answering any and every thing related to himself, Dave, BYU and OU wrestling, etc. http://www.thematforums.com/myforum/...id=3&pagenum=1 It has been very interesting and informative, save for the hostile and hypocritical posts of one dullard named "Whizzer" . Might want to check it out before Mark gets tired of the nonsense. Or better yet, perhaps someone can talk him into dropping by our humble abode over here !

Wonderful post you made to Mark over there Brother Morris. As always, you are all class and always interesting to read and talk with. Take good care.

--pm

[p-jersey]

Originally Posted by arm-spin I only read the wrestling parts of the Mark Schultz thread. Seems the wrestling part of his career was an incredible sucess.. 3 gold medals is it?.. fwhat exactly are the "failings" that Schultz underwent? (I honestly don't know.) BTW I can't imagine having the balls to let anyone discuss my private life on the internet. Geez.

Agreed, he could have just answered questions related to his competitive career but he put himself out there and talked about even the dark aspects of his life. I dont know many people that would be willing to let people question some of the worst moments of their life as it inevitably leads to criticism.