View Poll Results: Which Style is more Confusing?

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  • Folkstyle is more confusing! I dont get riding time

    6 17.65%
  • Freestyle is more confusing! Why did the guy who scored more points lose?

    28 82.35%
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Thread: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

  1. #37

    Default Re: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spladle View Post
    I don't know about confusing, but you can have Freestyle. I'll take Folkstyle anytime. If we ever go to Freestyle and do away with Folkstyle,
    I won't be following wrestling any longer. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this way !!!!
    That is certainly the best attitude to have!
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  2. #38
    World Champ
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    Default Re: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spladle View Post
    I don't know about confusing, but you can have Freestyle. I'll take Folkstyle anytime. If we ever go to Freestyle and do away with Folkstyle,
    I won't be following wrestling any longer. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this way !!!!
    My opinion too!

  3. #39

    Default Re: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

    If they dont improve the rules and America does ever switch to freestyle (like some people seem to desire) I would cease to be a wrestling fan
    Gold is an idiot.

  4. #40

    Default Re: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

    Neither folkstyle nor freestyle is currently operating with optimal rules. The freestyle rules have been criticized enough that I have nothing else to add. In terms of NCAA wrestling, I find a lot of matches painful to watch because they won't stay on the damn mat. I don't know if a pushout rule is an optimal solution, but something of that sort is desperately needed.

    Also, standardized stalling rules, if only so the internet message boards can stop the incessant "he was stalling "no he was stalling" chatter that goes on after just about every match.

    May I recommend:
    a) stepping out of bounds for any reason other than being forced out
    b) taking more than 3 steps backward
    c) failing to make a legitimate attack from standing in a 30 second period
    d) blocking with the head or forearm.
    e) avoiding contact with opponent to stand up, shake out arms, etc a la Jordan Leen

    PS freestyle and grecp could use a similar system also

  5. #41
    Olympic Champ ISU2008's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

    Still requires the ref's judgement

    a) stepping out of bounds for any reason other than being forced out
    Does the other guy have to push you out? What if you go out of bounds defending a shot? What if the guy is driving into you in the middle of a shot?

    b) taking more than 3 steps backward
    How big a step? Does shuffling your feet count?

    c) failing to make a legitimate attack from standing in a 30 second period
    You'll never get anyone to agree on what "legitimate" means. Who watches the 30 second clock? Who restarts if after a "legitimate" shot?

    d) blocking with the head or forearm.
    Where's the line between blocking and staying in good position?

    e) avoiding contact with opponent to stand up, shake out arms, etc a la Jordan Leen
    What if the guy stands up to change his level to set up a shot?

    Before you say "A reasonable person/ref would be able to determine these things", they already can't determine stalling consistently as it is now.

    I like both freestyle and folkstyle. I'm not going to comment on the rules because everyone (in a given style) has the same rules.
    You do the math..... I'll do the alfredo!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

  6. #42

    Default Re: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

    Quote Originally Posted by ISU2008 View Post
    Still requires the ref's judgement

    a) stepping out of bounds for any reason other than being forced out
    Does the other guy have to push you out? What if you go out of bounds defending a shot? What if the guy is driving into you in the middle of a shot?

    b) taking more than 3 steps backward
    How big a step? Does shuffling your feet count?

    c) failing to make a legitimate attack from standing in a 30 second period
    You'll never get anyone to agree on what "legitimate" means. Who watches the 30 second clock? Who restarts if after a "legitimate" shot?

    d) blocking with the head or forearm.
    Where's the line between blocking and staying in good position?

    e) avoiding contact with opponent to stand up, shake out arms, etc a la Jordan Leen
    What if the guy stands up to change his level to set up a shot?

    Before you say "A reasonable person/ref would be able to determine these things", they already can't determine stalling consistently as it is now.

    I like both freestyle and folkstyle. I'm not going to comment on the rules because everyone (in a given style) has the same rules.
    + 1
    Gold is an idiot.

  7. #43

    Default Re: Which is more confusing: Folkstyle or Freestyle?

    ISU, I agree with your comments to some extent. My suggestions would definitely require referee's discretion, as do the current stalling rules.

    I don't know exactly how the NCAA rule book reads, but in the (admittedly limited) folkstyle matches I have watched they seem to call stalling mostly on guys who are actively avoiding wrestling, much like "fleeing the hold" is called in freestyle. Stuff that is more "tactical stalling" ie backing out of ties, wrestling on the edge, blocking with the head, doesn't seem to get penalized. I think that wrestlers should be penalized for "not attacking", not just for "avoiding wrestling" if that makes sense.

    After graduating from university I wrestled for a half season in South Africa. They wrestle freestyle down there, but they call penalties (cautions) for stalling much like I've described there. It drove me crazy at first; I'd wrestle much more actively than I was used to and still got called for stalling... I remember I got penalized in the 1 min standing Greco round despite scoring 3 pts! However, the South Africans seemed to deal with it just fine. The matches were geat to watch; at the National Team trials I saw dozens of pins and only one clinch. Perhaps worse defense among South African wrestlers plays a rule, but the stalling calls played a big part as well.

    To answer your specific questions:
    Out of Bounds- the defense wrestler needs to make an effort to stay in bounds. Same as old rules freestyle. If this is too subjective I'd be ok with a pushout rule, anything is better than that playing the edge crap you see in folkstyle matches.


    "Shot" clock- I was thinking more of a guideline (refs should look to penalize the least active wrestler after 30 second with no score) than an actual clock... I think Real Pro Wrestling had a stalling clock of some kind, run by a second referee, not sure how that worked. Same with the steps, deliberately backing up should be penalized, but I see how counting steps could present a problem.

    Blocking- keeping your head in the way is fine. Burying it in your oponent's shoulder is blocking. ISo is keeping your forearm across the opponent's chest to push them away (especially in greco).

    Standing up while close enough to attack your opponent is no problem... what annoys me is when wrestlers walk to the other side of the mat to jump around and shake themselves out, because it kills itme off the clock. I forget which match I saw where it really annoyed me, it might have been Leen-Oconnor.

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