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Discuss The Evils of Weight cutting at the College Wrestling within the Wrestling Talk Forums; Originally Posted by Tony Rotundo Mojo, Nice to meet you. I mean no disrespect here ...
  1. #37
    National Finalist MOJO's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Rotundo View Post
    Mojo,

    Nice to meet you. I mean no disrespect here and think you made some wise decisions with your son. I like people of character. Like most of us, I have weight cutting horror stories (worst ever: Butch Hibbard, Canandaigua High School, NY, circa 1985) and with a dad as coach pushing to drop weight classes, well, it caused a rift between us that has thankfully been mended. Why he wanted me to drop to 98 pounds my senior year and face Jeff Prescott (yep, 3x NYS champ, 2x NCCA champ and '91 OW) at inter-sectionals, I have no idea! Lunacy!

    My thoughts about your post are not about weight cutting per say, but more about weight management. And I do think there is more than just a semantic difference between the two. You say your son was on weight Wed and it sounds like maybe he didn't have to "cut" to get there, maybe just watch what he eats and work out some, maybe a jog around the block. That to me is weight management. Now, somehow, mysteriously, he was 2.5 lbs over Friday. Well, assuming he didn't really "cut" to get on weight Wed, it isn't a mystery how he got to 2.5 over Friday.

    I'm not passing judgment here and don't know the specific, but once he makes weight Wed, maybe talk about food in and calories out (with mom) and what it will take to stay on weight. Maybe have a scale at home and see how much he loses over night. Putting food on a small scale in the kitchen is great, "Hey a banana weighs a 1/4 pound, look that piece of chicken is a half pound. Since you sleep off one pound over night, you can eat 1.5 pound for dinner and still be on weight at lunch time..." having mom involved is key, because often mom's are the one making dinner and lunch. You are right, you have to take charge, but take charge wisely and with a plan. Maybe you want to monitor what he eats between Wed and Friday and while not restrict his diet, talk about "fighting weight" and exercising somehow on Thursday.

    I image you get the point, that we can manage our weight, and I'm even a proponent of getting into "fighting weight" which to me means tons of exercise, and eating properly and seeing where your weight goes. This to me is different from "cutting weight" which in my mind is starving and saunas and dehydration.

    With regards to your experience later, again, not to judge, but it seems almost a complete lack of self-control to gain 18 pounds in a day, when you know you have to make weight the next day. They must have known you by name at the concession stand. LOL At some point, one's mind (no coach?!) has to kick in and say, "every [fill in five pounds of something! =] I eat, I will have to lose tonight." Maybe having a strategic plan on what to eat after weigh-in is the way to go there (same with your son on Thursdays). I know as a coach I used to gauge how many pounds of food my kids could eat on day one for a two day tournament. They have all their food in a bag, step on the scale, and can't go over a certain amount, because then they will have to sauna and lose dangerous weight.

    In my day (our day) two-day tournaments allowed us to weight in Friday night. That seems so decadent now compared to Saturday morning weigh-ins; it's one area where we really did have it easier than the kids of today.

    Good luck to you and your son, hopefully I have a chance to photograph him some day.

    Cheers,

    TR
    Brother Tony Rotundo,
    Nice to meet you as well brother! There was a heavyweight named Tony Rotundo in D3 back in my day (eightys). Seeing that you wrestled Prescott, I am pretty sure you are not the same, but any relation?
    Anyway, regarding your thoughts, philosophically I agree with the idea of weight management to a point, and it really is what we had tried to apply while he was making weight for Districts two weeks before. Watched what he ate, cut out junk (sweets, chips, gatorade) and introduced the difference between caloric weight and food volume, etc. It worked well to, he was a .5 under without doing anything more than having a smaller than usual breakfast (8 oz milk, cereal, 1/2 banana) and 8 oz. oj and 2 turkey slices w/ lettuce for lunch. No problem, save one, which I will mention in a second. This weekend we followed the EXACT same regiment (since he got all pins and techs last time, we became superstitous ) but with much different results metabolically. I wrote it off to a growth spurt, its possible he snuck 2 pounds of double stuffed oreos in his back pack and polished them off at recess, but I kind of doubt it. Still not sure what happened but I do know that , unlike me in college, he is still growing and the same rules don't apply.

    The problem I mentioned, even in the good weight management weeks, was that as soon as we started the program, ALL Des thought about was food. Like a pregnant woman obsessing, it was all he talked about for two weeks! This to me is the beginning of the problem that I wanted to avoid, not thinking about wrestling any longer and just thinking about being deprived.

    As for my jr nationals story, I agree it sounds crazy to gain weight while wrestling 3 days in a row. To the best of my memory, I wasn't hitting the consession stands by the 1/2 hour (too broke ). What I recall was that I left CA weighing about 16 lbs over. My coach and his wife drove me to Iowa, camping out along the way, so the plan was to lose 7 lbs per day, eat back 2, lose 7 more, eat 2, etc. This didn't quite go as planned ( the losing 7 worked but I would gain back 4 or so) so i got to Iowa 9 over. My coach always told me to rehydrate and eat back enough to feel like you can wrestle well, since that was the point of the whole thing. I was taught to worry about weight AFTER I was done wrestling, not during. So I drank Gatorade like there was no tomorrow. At least 2 gallons. We also planned on losing some weight during the tourney, but fortunatly (or unfortunatly weight wise) I got 3 first period falls the first day, and feeling thirsty after each match, drank more Gatorade. So the combination of my body trying to return to its natural weight and overhydrating created the perfect storm of weight making nightmares.

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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    I heard a story about Mark Reiland at Fargo the year he won double titles. He won Greco, and he was 16 over. His coach said something to the effect of "Well, you can either enjoy the gold, or you can lose the weight now." He made it and won, but that is insane.
    You do the math..... I'll do the alfredo!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    There was one story I read about in Sports Illustrated a long time ago -I don't remember all the details but it involved Gable and his team literally searching for a wrestler -they found him at an airport ,sobbing because he was too far overweight and had decided to quit and go home . i don't remember the ending cause if it comes to a teenager trying to flee home rather than cut weight something is WRONG with the program.

  4. #40
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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    There was one story I read about in Sports Illustrated a long time ago -I don't remember all the details but it involved Gable and his team literally searching for a wrestler -they found him at an airport ,sobbing because he was too far overweight and had decided to quit and go home . i don't remember the ending cause if it comes to a teenager trying to flee home rather than cut weight something is WRONG with the program.
    I heard a similar story and the version I heard was about Barry Davis (NCAA champ, Olympian and current Wisconsin head coach).
    Appearantly Davis was so burned out and discouraged trying to make weight that he decided to quit wrestling and the team altogether. He headed striaght to the supermarket to stock up on food. Gable heard this and sent some wrestlers to intercept. They were able to get to him before he got to the checkout and managed to convince him to leave the food and rejoin the team.

  5. #41
    Redshirt Tony Rotundo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO View Post
    Brother Tony Rotundo,
    Nice to meet you as well brother! There was a heavyweight named Tony Rotundo in D3 back in my day (eightys). Seeing that you wrestled Prescott, I am pretty sure you are not the same, but any relation?
    Anyway, regarding your thoughts, philosophically I agree with the idea of weight management to a point, and it really is what we had tried to apply while he was making weight for Districts two weeks before. Watched what he ate, cut out junk (sweets, chips, gatorade) and introduced the difference between caloric weight and food volume, etc. It worked well to, he was a .5 under without doing anything more than having a smaller than usual breakfast (8 oz milk, cereal, 1/2 banana) and 8 oz. oj and 2 turkey slices w/ lettuce for lunch. No problem, save one, which I will mention in a second. This weekend we followed the EXACT same regiment (since he got all pins and techs last time, we became superstitous ) but with much different results metabolically. I wrote it off to a growth spurt, its possible he snuck 2 pounds of double stuffed oreos in his back pack and polished them off at recess, but I kind of doubt it. Still not sure what happened but I do know that , unlike me in college, he is still growing and the same rules don't apply.

    The problem I mentioned, even in the good weight management weeks, was that as soon as we started the program, ALL Des thought about was food. Like a pregnant woman obsessing, it was all he talked about for two weeks! This to me is the beginning of the problem that I wanted to avoid, not thinking about wrestling any longer and just thinking about being deprived.

    As for my jr nationals story, I agree it sounds crazy to gain weight while wrestling 3 days in a row. To the best of my memory, I wasn't hitting the consession stands by the 1/2 hour (too broke ). What I recall was that I left CA weighing about 16 lbs over. My coach and his wife drove me to Iowa, camping out along the way, so the plan was to lose 7 lbs per day, eat back 2, lose 7 more, eat 2, etc. This didn't quite go as planned ( the losing 7 worked but I would gain back 4 or so) so i got to Iowa 9 over. My coach always told me to rehydrate and eat back enough to feel like you can wrestle well, since that was the point of the whole thing. I was taught to worry about weight AFTER I was done wrestling, not during. So I drank Gatorade like there was no tomorrow. At least 2 gallons. We also planned on losing some weight during the tourney, but fortunatly (or unfortunatly weight wise) I got 3 first period falls the first day, and feeling thirsty after each match, drank more Gatorade. So the combination of my body trying to return to its natural weight and overhydrating created the perfect storm of weight making nightmares.
    Mojo,

    Not the same TR, I was a lightweight (unless I'm at a bar ;^). And while my brother's name is Mike, he's not a fake wrestler either.

    Sounds like you were watching the weight, that's a freaky growth spurt I must say. My point is I think proper eating and getting into shape can get lost in the "cutting" weight discussion. Frankly, a lot fo kids today coudl actually stand to lose some weight, but I hear your point,that as soon as you make an issue of it, the psychosocial need or want for what we can't have kicks in and the weight goes in the opposite direction. I fully understand the mind games, I would be fat and happy on a Sunday afternoon and my dad would say, "Hey, there's a tournament next week, why don't you go weight yourself?" I would immediately want a sandwich.

    I think somewhere in there is the fine balance of proper weight management and getting into fighting weight without the terror of cutting 18 pounds in a day.

    Good luck!

    Tony

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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    For all wrestlers under 12 years old I truly believe there should be no preregistration for a tournament , or a weight class registration, send the money ,show up and if the kid ways 92 he wrestles 95 instead of 90 .
    I have literally seen kids wait for pairings to be posted and then try to cut away from a stud .

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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    Payton is right... weight should not be an issue for kids at all. Wrestle what you weigh.

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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    Last night my 17 year old was downloading his camera photos to iPhoto and he wanted to show me some of them. I started to notice a trend...at almost every event there was at least one photo of the food! Brats in a pot on the stove, burgers on the grill, banana pudding just out of the oven...like "here's me and my friends, and here's the food". Cutting weight has definately warped him!
    "All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind." -- Abraham Lincoln

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    Default Re: The Evils of Weight cutting

    I guess we are starting to be trendy like supermodels!
    "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak."

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