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Thread: Bump 3 off the list

  1. #64

    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    No use being done yet on my little rampage.

    What about Andy Hrovat? He dominated everybody during the season, but boy oh boy was he a head case. He had to have been. I mean how do you go from beating Josh Lambrecht 9-4 to losing 17-2? I mean that just doesn't happen without something mentally going wrong. I have the Michigan Stat book from Hrovat's senior year and he dominated many of the wrestlers who finished ahead of him at nationals that year.

    He wrestled Jessman Smith twice that year. Beat him 14-4 and then 10-4. Yet, because Smith placed 3rd, while Hrovat placed 7th, Smith is looked at as the better wrestler.

    Not everything worth remembering in wrestling, happened at nationals. Take this fan's word for it.
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  2. #65
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    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    Quote Originally Posted by VakAttack View Post
    Who did dominate this year in your opinion then? The guy who scores the most team points is a pretty big time argument.
    Domination to me means the loser does not look like he belongs on the mat with the winner. Most dominant for this year's NCAA was Phil Davis. Michalak was totally outclassed. And Dart Shark agree with me, from Intermat:
    Semifinials
    197 pounds
    An upset on one side and a dominant performance on another. The upset came as Wynn Michalak of Central Michigan was awarded a last-second takedown to upend returning champion Josh Glenn of American. Michalak will face Phil Davis of Penn State, a 6-0 winner of Wisconsin's Dallas Herbst.


    I'll give Perry credit, he clearly outwrestled Tannebaum, he won the close match against Marable, all shortly after his knee surgery. But I still don't see it as a dominant performance.

  3. #66
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    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    Quote Originally Posted by JensenS View Post
    I've got 7 guys on the list with more losses than Heskett's ten.

    The thing that handicaps him in comparison to those guys is that 4 of them have 3 titles, and if you have 3 titles you get to be on my list somewhere.

    The other three have two, and all were at least equal to Heskett's 3 finals appearances.
    Okay, that sounds fair. It really goes to show how accomplished some wrestlers were when their record tops greats such as Cradlin' Joe. Another way to look at it is that only one wrestler per year, on average, will be good enough to make the list.

  4. #67
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    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Domination to me means the loser does not look like he belongs on the mat with the winner. Most dominant for this year's NCAA was Phil Davis. Michalak was totally outclassed. And Dart Shark agree with me, from Intermat:
    Semifinials
    197 pounds
    An upset on one side and a dominant performance on another. The upset came as Wynn Michalak of Central Michigan was awarded a last-second takedown to upend returning champion Josh Glenn of American. Michalak will face Phil Davis of Penn State, a 6-0 winner of Wisconsin's Dallas Herbst.


    I'll give Perry credit, he clearly outwrestled Tannebaum, he won the close match against Marable, all shortly after his knee surgery. But I still don't see it as a dominant performance.
    That description you gave me doesn't descirbe the Davis-Michalak match up at all.
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  5. #68
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    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    Quote Originally Posted by JensenS View Post
    All the guys in the first post save for Lee, and McCoy are in the top 25. Branch, and Bonomo are as well, I wouldn't be asking for pin numbers for them if they weren't.

    Here are some other guys that made my top 35-50'ish range that didn't stick in the end.

    Duane Goldman
    Joe Heskett
    Joe Dubuque
    Damion Hahn
    Troy Letters (I'm ready for a hearty bashing for this one)
    Chris Pendleton (And for this one, as Askren is up pretty high on the list right now)
    Donny Pritzlaff
    Pat Santoro
    Markus Mollica
    Jack Cuvo
    Kevin Randleman
    Michael Lightner
    Eric Juergens
    Carlton Haselrig (I didn't really know what to deal with him, I guess you can say I'm technically limiting it to full time D1 guys, or else he'd have been on it)
    Josh Koscheck
    Eric Larkin
    Sonny Abe
    Ryan Bertin
    Sam Hazewinkel (He lasted the longest of the no titles guys on the original list)
    Jake Herbert: (Made it the furthest of guys still in college)
    If you are going by NCAA, Letters probably does not make the cut (2,1,3,DNP), but if he is healthy his Senior year and wins, Pery and Hendricks are off the list and Letters is on.

    Some other comments, which all have a degree of ignorance since I have not seen your top 25:

    - Did you ever see Cuvo wrestle? I know you are fairly young. He was just so dominant.
    - If Perry is on the list , Herbert belongs there. Perry was more than just outmuscled, Herbert was the better wrestler.
    - Hard to imagine 25 guys better than Chris Pendleton & Carlton Haselrig

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    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    Quote Originally Posted by VakAttack View Post
    That description you gave me doesn't descirbe the Davis-Michalak match up at all.
    We saw the same match through different eyes. I thought Davis was never in trouble and Michalak was not going to score anything but escapes. I felt bad for Michalak when Davis was riding him and he was being called for stalling, I thought he was trying to work but there was nothing he could do against Davis's ride.

  7. #70

    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    I'm still baffled on what to do with Mark Branch.

    4x finalist, 2x champ maybe even a 3x'er if he doesn't rip up his knee against Darryl Weber. He's got the second most losses of anyone still on the list with 19.

    Color me puzzled.

    ODH, on the things you mentioned I agree on Letters. I've never seen Cuvo wrestle and that very well may be affecting my non placement of him. Herbert would have been on the list, and very high on it had he wrestled this year, and assumingly won. Pendleton was a tough omission, but he was only a 3x AA, and never went undefeated. I just didn't know what to do with Haselrig, by my own criteria he should probably be on there since he won 3 titles, but the heavyweight classes he won weren't exactly stacked from looking at them, and I just don't know what his numbers would have looked like had he gone D1 the whole time.

  8. #71
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    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    If your list is greatest wrestlers in the last 25 years it is not too hard to leave Branch off the list. If you are judging someone whole season and career by NCAA placements it becomes more difficult.
    BTW, I hope Jake Rosholt is not on the list even though he always had great NCAA tournaments. Regular season has to count for something.

  9. #72
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    Default Re: Bump 3 off the list

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    If you are going by NCAA, Letters probably does not make the cut (2,1,3,DNP), but if he is healthy his Senior year and wins, Pery and Hendricks are off the list and Letters is on.

    Some other comments, which all have a degree of ignorance since I have not seen your top 25:

    - Did you ever see Cuvo wrestle? I know you are fairly young. He was just so dominant.
    - If Perry is on the list , Herbert belongs there. Perry was more than just outmuscled, Herbert was the better wrestler.
    - Hard to imagine 25 guys better than Chris Pendleton & Carlton Haselrig
    Samsonite, you are way off.

    1. Why would Perry be off if Letters won it his Senior year? Perry was at 174.

    2. If Perry were at 165, why would we assume that Letters would beat him, when Perry beat Letters at NCAA's as a Frosh?

    3. Perry was more then just outmuscled? Herbert killed himself to make 174, while Perry could obviously have been at 165.
    Jacob Schlottke---Gone too soon, and the world is a little less bright because of it. RIP, brother.

    One, two, Evans is coming for you...

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