Big

First, Hahn was a shadow of himself at 184, where Sanderson beat him. Second, Hahn also didn't have super tough people to beat when he won 2X at 197. He beat Trenge by a point and Trenge had no luck in the finals. Then he beat Fulsaas from Iowa who wasn't even on the map until his final year and was seeded like 10th.

Cormier was a first time finalist when Sanderson beat him. I believe he placed 7th the year before.

All I am saying is that the cards fell in Sanderson's favor every time he won NCAAs. He didn't go undefeated by facing opponents that gave him OT matches and such.

matclone

Big, that is one of the dumbest arguments you've ever made (but you aren't the only one to do so).

How could Cael wrestle a former champ if he was the one taking the cake every year? The fact there wasn't a former champ in his weight class when he was a freshman, means the class was weak? Hardly. In addition, as already mentioned, to wrestling Cormier (a classic final) and Hahn, His freshman or soph year, he beat Brad Vering who subsequently moved up a weight to win an NCAA title. Oh, and another future world medalist, Brandon Eggum also fell short of title hopes because he had to face Cael.

Big

matclone,

Cael's freshman year there was no defending champion in the weight. He beat Jones iin the finals who got teched the year before in the finals with Clark. How can a weight be superstrong if one guy teched another guy in the finals the year before?

When Cael moved up to 197 once again there was no defending champion there. Hartung and Fulhart both graduated by then. Robison as well.

I am almost positive Sanderson would have at least one loss if he had to face Fulhart, Robison, and Hartung at 197.

Trusty

This being ONE of his goals, I'll throw Tyler Graff's name in the mix!
So, to answer your question, I'll have to say.......Soon.

matclone

Oh, and Cael also beat future NCAA champ Rob Rohn in college.

Oh, and Cael did beat past NCAA champ Fulhart while he was still in college. 2001 Midlands.

Stardust

it's also not beyond the realm of possibility that Cael's weight class might have been weaker cause wrestlers were running away from him

__________________


Super 32 Challenge - November 1, 2008
NC Mat

"Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can" -- John Wesley

Big

What was the score when he beat Fulhart at Midlands? I bet it wasn't a major or a tech. Anyway, that was almost 3 years after Fulhart graduated. He was concentrating on freestyle.

Gold

There's no way you can say this will not happen. We have had like 100 years of college wrestling so far and have much longer than that in front of us.

matclone

So, Cael beat at least five former or future NCAA champions while he was in college: Hahn, Rohn, Fulhart, Vering, Munoz. He also beat NCAA past and future NCAA finalists (not counting when they wrestled Cael) Trenge and Barker. He also defeated future world medalists Eggum and Cormier, who might have have won in college but for that guy in the scarlet singlet.

architeuthis

Big,

Cael's Freshman year he beat Eggum who subsequently went on to place second in the world the year Cael opted out of the World Championships following 9/11. In my opinion, this argument doesn'thold too much water because winning the NCAA's as a freshman is not an easy thing to do regardless of returning champs. Not saying your point is invalid, just that his freshman year is a 'special case'.

His sophmore year he beat Vertus Jones, who I feel like was rather underrated. Mitch Clark was not to be denied his senior year arguably was one of the most dominating wrestler's from the top position. (I'm a bit biased because I modeled my style after Clark's and look to him as a huge influence) This year Brad Vering bumped up a weight and subsequently won the Championship. I've heard rumors (only rumors) that this was because he couldn't beat Cael. He also beat Eggum again in the Semis.

His Junior year was Cormier, which has been discussed and at this point 197 was a very viable option for a number of competitors. I feel that this year, out of all of them, the competition was the weakest. Once again this is my opinion and I don't currently have the time to research it.

During his senior year, I feel that Cael's #1 competition was the pressure of what he was to accomplish. No one rolled over for him, but it was obvious that he was head and shoulders above the competition this year. While cases could be made that people may have been avoiding him, I don't think thats reason to believe that the weight was watered down. 197 is traditionally a very tough weight and the other top four place winners all believed, at least in interviews that they could beat him.

It's distinctly possible that had he had to wrestle Hartung, Robison, or Fullhart that he could have had a loss. Unfortunately, they were a few years before him and his post collegiate record shows that he was probably better than all three of them when they wewre on the same level.

Personally, I don't think its reasonable to speculate on coulda/wouldas with any weight class. The reason being that they are weight classes and a wrestler has a choice to go where ever s/he can make weight. In my eyes its a strategy thing. This same argument could be made for Askren his senior year. Both years he won a title, he did not beat a returning Champion.

I hope you take this for what it's worth and not that I am bashing your opinion. I see where you are coming from and it is a valid point. I actually like having this conversation.