Metcalf More Offensive Than Ds - Results

architeuthis · 01-14-2008, 04:48 PM

As much as I hate to, I agree with flop the nuts on this. I'm a huge Gopher fan, but I feel obligated to call it like I see it. I know stats are just that, stats. You can pick common opponents all day and it doesn't make a difference. I say this because I don't want to give validation to chrir33's numbers. They don't mean anything accept they both beat similar opponents or that Metcalf scored more points. It is not a realistic way to predict who will win NCAA's and quite honestly is just an attempt to stir up the pot. Which is fine.

Now saying that DS is going to eat Metcalf for lunch if he comes out and wrestles the Iowa style is bordering on absurd.

I agree that freshman year dustin would eat the Iowa style for lunch. But there is no possible way that I can agree with anyone who says that DS will eat Metcalf for lunch.

I say this for two reasons:

1) Metcalf is the horse of a different color. After watching him wrestle, He is something special like Dustin was his Frosh year. He's too tallented, too strong, and too smart to get eaten for lunch by anybody. I could be wrong, but seriously, even through my maroon ang gold glasses, I can't see how dusting takes it to Metcalf. He is as close to billing as you can get despite the loss to caldwell.

2) DS has done nothing to show me that he is going to eat anyone for lunch this year. Is he talented enough? yes! Is he a bad enough dude? yes! is he head and shoulders above the competition? yes!

has he given me any reason to believe he is going to score points on anyone? NO!!!!!!

Is it frusterating? very much so. The fact of the matter is, it is going to take some serious convincing other than, "he's done it to everyone else who has 'wrestled' him". You're right, he has, Just not recently. not when the match is on the line. not when he's behind in the third period, not yet this year.

Please don't misinterperet me as calling anyone out...I'm not, I've said this in a few other threads and I just don't get how anyone can predict other than a regular decision against anyone who is ranked or form one of the top tier schools (OSU, IA, PSU, NE, etc.)

I feel very fortunate to live somewhere were I can watch Dustin on a regular basis throughout his career. I am a huge fan and I may never get to see anything like him again talent wise up close as many times as I have, but at some point you have to call a spade a spade.

And this time, a spade is that Metcalf makes me nervous as a gopher fan. Will dustin win, I think so, will he win decisivley, not in the slightest.

JensenS · 01-14-2008, 04:51 PM

As much as it may seem as though I'm "recanting" I actually agree with Flop as well, that this match is about as much of a toss as can be considered, and have been saying as much through out the year.

"Eat him for lunch" was just a little bit of hyperbole to throw out there to counter a dumb argument.

Flop The Nuts · 01-14-2008, 04:58 PM

Eat him for lunch" was just a little bit of hyperbole to throw out there to counter a dumb argument.

Sometimes hyperbole is the only option. Hang out in the politics and religion boards for long enough and it becomes second nature.

architeuthis · 01-14-2008, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by JensenS

As much as it may seem as though I'm "recanting" I actually agree with Flop as well, that this match is about as much of a toss as can be considered, and have been saying as much through out the year.

"Eat him for lunch" was just a little bit of hyperbole to throw out there to counter a dumb argument.

Way to stick to your guns.

no, just kidding. I tend to rehash this point over and over. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday who goes to cornell. We were discussing how overrated adam frey is and how difficult it is to be a cornell fan and I related that I was in the same boat as a Gopher fan.

The common tie being this, you look at expectations put on Adam frey and you see that he just doesn't deserve the nod against a top tier opponent because he is far to inconsistent. You see people all the time who pencil in frey for a major, a back up 125lber for a victory, or anceravage solid performance because they wear crimson glasses. The fact is that despite being rated well on paper, there is so much more that goes into predicting a match up.

I see DS in the program and based upon his talent level, your brain automatically predicts a major. which is fine because he should major whoever it is he's wrestling. For pete's sake he monkey stomped esposito. but, based upon what you've seen and I've seen, there is no way you can predict anything more than a decision. Its frusterating as hell but its the truth. Same thing with dretsch, the same thing with Mack. None of those are as drastic as what we experience with DS.

The most consistent performer for the last two years on the gophers has been Kish. You could set your watch by his ability to score at will and keep the pressure on for a major. Now, I don't know if its injury or what but he isn't the same. It seems on the surface that none of them are.

I for one will be very disappointed if they don't pull it together, because this will be a very sad ending of what has been one of the best teams ever and certainly the top 2 of the last four years. for the record, I think they will pull it together, none of this really matters until march and, well, feb. 2nd. that is going to be the litmus test. And up until then none of this even makes any sense.

Or maybe its just me that doesn't make any sense.

Gripsnhips · 01-14-2008, 05:12 PM

Everyone here knows I'm from the Metcalf camp.

But, bottomline......W is W. No matter how you get it. 3-2 or 17-2.....both mean you are the winner of the wrestling match.

JensenS · 01-14-2008, 05:19 PM

I guess this is just where I deviate from a lot of people. I've been watching Dustin for two and a half years, and to be completely honest I see very few differences in his wrestling over the course of his college career.

The biggest one is he doesn't score with his tilts as much now as he used to, and this is what in my opinion has brought his scoring way down.

People seem to have this illusion that when Dustin was a freshman he was this takedown machine who shot fifty times a match, he wasn't. Nearly every big score he dropped on a guy was because he turned him like a top.

When Dustin and Brent finally meet up, in my opinion how the match goes down will depend on how Metcalf approaches it. Dustin is going to do what he always has done.

From the feet he's going to stay in impeccable position, take his shots when they're there, look for his duck under, or for TD's off front headlock positions.

On the mat he's going to ride hard and look for his little cheap tilt from a tight waist when he's on top, and when he's on bottom he's going to do the slow methodical (frustrating as hell) tripod stand up that everyone on the Gophers does.

The argument that Metcalf is going to beat Dustin because he's soooooo offensive from the feet baffles me. In the three matches Dustin has lost in college, a total of eleven points have been scored, Dustin scoring four, and his opponents scoring seven.

Hence my hyperbole about Dustin eating Metcalf for lunch if he wrestles the "Iowa" style.

It would seem to me anyway, that it would be advantageous for Metcalf to try and slow the match down, and win a close one. If he comes out and wrestles that aggressive style, that will open him up for mistakes, and while I don't see Dustin destroying him, I don't see Metcalf winning.

goldengopher · 01-14-2008, 05:30 PM

My issue with this whole thing is DS has already proven himself (1st & 3rd)and Metcalf hasn't. With that said Metcalf has certainly been impressive so far this year and will certainly have a great career. I agree with much of what has been said in that this is clearly a tossup.

Pointing to he did this versus him while he did that versus him is just silly. As has been pointed out many times before people were aggressive against DS initially and then once they realized that was a bad idea went to the "if I can just take him down once defense" and that changed the way DS has to wrestle his matches. I think you will see the same thing with Metcalf people will start thinking more defensive than offensive and Metcalf will have to adjust his approach as welll.

chrir33 · 01-14-2008, 05:44 PM

I agree. Great analysis.

I just feel Metcalf will beat him, and I love his attitude, my opinion.

If they wrestled 10 times, I'd bet Metcalf wins 6

Good luck Brent and Gillespie (we are both from Rochester NY)

And by the way - I don't have a team but I'm favoring ISU only cause of Mr. 159-0. I know ISU will be tough to beat for many years.

Originally Posted by architeuthis

As much as I hate to, I agree with flop the nuts on this. I'm a huge Gopher fan, but I feel obligated to call it like I see it. I know stats are just that, stats. You can pick common opponents all day and it doesn't make a difference. I say this because I don't want to give validation to chrir33's numbers. They don't mean anything accept they both beat similar opponents or that Metcalf scored more points. It is not a realistic way to predict who will win NCAA's and quite honestly is just an attempt to stir up the pot. Which is fine.

Now saying that DS is going to eat Metcalf for lunch if he comes out and wrestles the Iowa style is bordering on absurd.

I agree that freshman year dustin would eat the Iowa style for lunch. But there is no possible way that I can agree with anyone who says that DS will eat Metcalf for lunch.

I say this for two reasons:

1) Metcalf is the horse of a different color. After watching him wrestle, He is something special like Dustin was his Frosh year. He's too tallented, too strong, and too smart to get eaten for lunch by anybody. I could be wrong, but seriously, even through my maroon ang gold glasses, I can't see how dusting takes it to Metcalf. He is as close to billing as you can get despite the loss to caldwell.

2) DS has done nothing to show me that he is going to eat anyone for lunch this year. Is he talented enough? yes! Is he a bad enough dude? yes! is he head and shoulders above the competition? yes!

has he given me any reason to believe he is going to score points on anyone? NO!!!!!!

Is it frusterating? very much so. The fact of the matter is, it is going to take some serious convincing other than, "he's done it to everyone else who has 'wrestled' him". You're right, he has, Just not recently. not when the match is on the line. not when he's behind in the third period, not yet this year.

Please don't misinterperet me as calling anyone out...I'm not, I've said this in a few other threads and I just don't get how anyone can predict other than a regular decision against anyone who is ranked or form one of the top tier schools (OSU, IA, PSU, NE, etc.)

I feel very fortunate to live somewhere were I can watch Dustin on a regular basis throughout his career. I am a huge fan and I may never get to see anything like him again talent wise up close as many times as I have, but at some point you have to call a spade a spade.

And this time, a spade is that Metcalf makes me nervous as a gopher fan. Will dustin win, I think so, will he win decisivley, not in the slightest.

chrir33 · 01-14-2008, 05:53 PM

A win is a win BUT.... 3-2 is a disappointing win compared to 17-1

17-1 is MUCH BETTER than 2-1

Look at Cael Sanderson's wins....80% were by more than 13 points. He wasn't happy winning 2-1, thats why those type of guys go on to win Olympic medals.

Originally Posted by Gripsnhips

Everyone here knows I'm from the Metcalf camp.

But, bottomline......W is W. No matter how you get it. 3-2 or 17-2.....both mean you are the winner of the wrestling match.

drstiles19 · 01-14-2008, 09:20 PM

Don't be surprised if Metcalf takes on a different strategy than normal against DS. Does everyone remember what happened in the finals at 165 last year? Perry was 0 and everything against Hendricks but Brands and Gable sat down with Perry and found Hendricks' weaknesses and how Perry could exploit them. Was it the prettiest match in the world? No. Did it have to frustrate the heck out of Hendricks? I am sure. Did Perry get his arm raised? Yes. Not that Jay Robinson is any slouch of a coach but Metcalf does have the advantage of having quite possibly the greatest wrestling coach ever in the room with him. Brands, Gable and Metcalf will analyze this match-up to no end and look to exploint DS' weaknesses as much as possible. It is quite possible that Metcalf comes out and wrestles a different style for that match to try and take advantage. Do I think Metcalf will win? I have no idea but I know I will sure as heck enjoy watching him trying. Win or lose it could be the match of the year and I can't wait.

Metcalf More Offensive Than Ds - Results

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