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Thread: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

  1. #46

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    They had a better second half last year but they haven't done anything yet Ban. Anything short of top five should be considered a failure at ISU.
    Year in and year out, can that really be expected though, given teams like Minnesota, OK State, Iowa, Cornell, PSU, Ohio State, and Missouri, over the past decade or so?

    Yes, it's ISU, but these teams make a consistent top five a tough task.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  2. #47

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    They had a better second half last year but they haven't done anything yet Ban. Anything short of top five should be considered a failure at ISU.
    I find that to be a bit idyllic.

    ISU is the #2 in a state that doesn't produce as much elite national talent as its residents thinks it does. It's tradition is excellent but high schoolers aren't necessarily drawn to tradition, especially if they're not from that state. Obviously ISU can be top 5, I just think for them to do it consistently is going to be really tough, regardless of the coach. Cael has won 3 in a row(looking like 4) and he wasn't able to win it all there(though he did do a nice job).

    Before Cael ISU had finishes of 13,10,6 and 19. Sure they were 2,5,3 with Cael, but his name and coaching abilities cannot be replaced.

    I think you could be sensationalizing ISU's potential and overall ceiling a bit. They haven't won a title since the 80's. Not all this falls on KJ's shoulders(not that you were painting it that way necessarily).

    I think a reasonable expectation would be consistent top 10-12, with the occasional top 5 finish.
    Last edited by vaisforlovers; 08-20-2013 at 05:36 AM.
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  3. #48

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    Year in and year out, can that really be expected though, given teams like Minnesota, OK State, Iowa, Cornell, PSU, Ohio State, and Missouri, over the past decade or so?

    Yes, it's ISU, but these teams make a consistent top five a tough task.
    Yes it should be expected year in and year out, and it is. In reality it wont happen that way but ISU should be one of those teams making it tough for others to get into the top five.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  4. #49

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    I find that to be a bit idyllic.

    ISU is the #2 in a state that doesn't produce as much elite national talent as its residents thinks it does. It's tradition is excellent but high schoolers aren't necessarily drawn to tradition, especially if they're not from that state. Obviously ISU can be top 5, I just think for them to do it consistently is going to be really tough, regardless of the coach. Cael has won 3 in a row(looking like 4) and he wasn't able to win it all there(though he did do a nice job).

    Before Cael ISU had finishes of 13,10,6 and 19. Sure they were 2,5,3 with Cael, but his name and coaching abilities cannot be replaced.

    I think you could be sensationalizing ISU's potential and overall ceiling a bit. They haven't won a title since the 80's. Not all this falls on KJ's shoulders(not that you were painting it that way necessarily).

    I think a reasonable expectation would be consistent top 10-12, with the occasional top 5 finish.
    Expectations should be top five. Expectations and actuality are two different things. If KJ gets them back into the top ten this year I'll say he's doing a fine job and has the team on the right path. With the right coach, Iowa State can get top recruits. Douglas got some very good ones and did not have the name of Sanderson. He fell off a bit his last couple of years but most people do towards the end of their coaching career, except Gable. IMO, ISU is still a place great high schoolers still want to go to if the right coach is there. It's hard not to get goose bumps when you look at the rafters in Hilton and see six olympic gold medal banners hanging in there. Recent ones too with Varner and Sanderson.

    Hope to see more improvement from ISU this year. I think top ten is reasonable but I expect top five...every year.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  5. #50

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    Expectations should be top five. Expectations and actuality are two different things. If KJ gets them back into the top ten this year I'll say he's doing a fine job and has the team on the right path. With the right coach, Iowa State can get top recruits. Douglas got some very good ones and did not have the name of Sanderson. He fell off a bit his last couple of years but most people do towards the end of their coaching career, except Gable. IMO, ISU is still a place great high schoolers still want to go to if the right coach is there. It's hard not to get goose bumps when you look at the rafters in Hilton and see six olympic gold medal banners hanging in there. Recent ones too with Varner and Sanderson.

    Hope to see more improvement from ISU this year. I think top ten is reasonable but I expect top five...every year.
    What in this programs history suggests that top 5 every year is reasonable? They've had legendary coaches and have been outside top 5 more often than not. Not following.
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  6. #51

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    What in this programs history suggests that top 5 every year is reasonable?
    Finishing in the top five 47 times makes it a reasonable expectation. In fact, if you look at the national placings of every coach at ISU way back to before Dr. Harold Nichols, only two coaches have had more finishes outside of the top five than not in the top five. Bobby D and KJ. So, there are two great reasons why top five is a reasonable expectation year in and year out at ISU. It's not only Cael Sanderson that can be successful at Iowa State. Many coaches have been.
    Last edited by Herkey#1; 08-20-2013 at 08:50 AM.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  7. #52

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post

    Before Cael ISU had finishes of 13,10,6 and 19. Sure they were 2,5,3 with Cael, but his name and coaching abilities cannot be replaced.
    I hadn't even focused on this fact before when people were Cael-bashing a few years ago. That's a pretty impressive first three years as a coach - significant improvement for the program.

  8. #53

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    There's a reason England transferred out of Ames and it's not because he's better than Weatherman.
    That may in fact be part of it. How would you know? I'm not gonna speculate on here, because I happen to know the Weatherman family. They'll settle it on the mat. I simply think England is better. His biggest weakness is mat wrestling - something the Tigers are particularly good at, so I see England improving quite a bit, whereas I'm just not sold on Jackson as much of a coach.

    Btw, shout out to ACguns, it was great meeting you this weekend.

  9. #54

    Default Re: Vaisforlovers NCAA Summer Predictions All Weights Posted

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan View Post
    That may in fact be part of it. How would you know?
    I guess I'm just basing my opinion on watching them wrestle all through high school and now into their college careers. And I may be wrong, so correct me if I am, and wrestle offs are not always an indicator of who is the better wrestler, but I think Weatherman beat England at the wrestle offs last year. I believe that Tanner has much more offense and his ceiling is much higher than Mikey's is. I'm not saying that England is bad. He's proven that he is a tough wrestler, he just needed to move along to somewhere he can be on varsity so he can prove it.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

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