Daisy. Thats fine if you have a preference for Graff. I obviously have a preference for Ramos since I am an Iowa fan. Please tell me where you see the non-sense that you speak of in this string though by anybody posting?

IF you only go by the facts and not your opinion all we have is a head to head this year between Conaway and Graff. There has been NO, and i mean NO indication or report that Graff hit his head or suffered a concussion during that match. And, it was obvious he was broken in the 3rd period. Could have hit his head, or could have just gassed as it seemed. Either way, the fact is he lost.

Thats what I have been saying the whole time. IF seeding goes the way almost every other seeding meeting in the US goes Graff gets the 4 seed. Hell, I hope Ramos gets the 1 seed so this match can happen then. We will see Ramos win by 3 or more would be my guess if it happens. If not, then Graff will have to wrestle a very good National Tournament to see Ramos in the Semis possibly, or Finals depending on his seed.

These are things that have been written that I feel are nonsense in some cases or hypocritical in others.

Comparing a head to head match from two years ago shows us nothing today.

Graff will gas like he always does and Ramos would run circles around him at that time. Ramos and Streebler are on different planets than Graff.

Conaway getting pinned does not matter in seeding either by both Ramos and Streebler. wouldnt matter if he lost by 10 or 1 either

Any past AA performances, or outside of the B1G matches, etc.....are irrelevant to seeding as a head to head is weighted much heavier.

HE's been dominating his opponents, and they've all been middling.

Look, you can pretend that this is an even match on paper if you like. There is literally nothing to back it up outside of a Sudden Victory win 2 years ago.

I think the idea that Graff doesn't gas is not correct. I also think Graff will not be strong enough on top or bottom (especially bottom) against Ramos.

Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter

These are things that have been written that I feel are nonsense in some cases or hypocritical in others.

Comparing a head to head match from two years ago shows us nothing today.

Graff will gas like he always does and Ramos would run circles around him at that time. Ramos and Streebler are on different planets than Graff.

Conaway getting pinned does not matter in seeding either by both Ramos and Streebler. wouldnt matter if he lost by 10 or 1 either

Any past AA performances, or outside of the B1G matches, etc.....are irrelevant to seeding as a head to head is weighted much heavier.

HE's been dominating his opponents, and they've all been middling.

Look, you can pretend that this is an even match on paper if you like. There is literally nothing to back it up outside of a Sudden Victory win 2 years ago.

I guess I just dont see anything that is outlandish and isnt correct in any of those statements above. Have you ever sat in a seeding meeting before. Even high school seeding meetings have outlines, and about every one of those comments above would not hold weight of a head to head match up. I mean, think about it.........If I beat you in a match, but you beat a guy I lost to who gets the higher seed in a tournament? The answer is quite clear if you are familiar with the way that seeding meetings go. Now, does it always fall that way, No, but thats more political movements than strictly objective decisions being made.

I will agree though that Graff is very good. Do I think its an even match up. NO, but you think so. Its your opinion, and thats mine. If they wrestle that will settle things, and Ramos will be the victor without doubt.

The thing that everyone is jumping on you for is calling the match 50:50. No one is denying that Graff is good or that Graff could win but Ramos is the favorite and he has earned that right through his performance on the mat this year. Talking about matches from two years ago is the equivalent of talking about matches from high school, IMO. Way to much changes to use that as an argument.

At least one person said they were on different planets. As far as who has progressed faster I have to believe that a year at the OTC would lead one to progress faster. I do give Ramos the national stare down championship! He has earned that.

Originally Posted by 1stplace

The thing that everyone is jumping on you for is calling the match 50:50. No one is denying that Graff is good or that Graff could win but Ramos is the favorite and he has earned that right through his performance on the mat this year. Talking about matches from two years ago is the equivalent of talking about matches from high school, IMO. Way to much changes to use that as an argument.

Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter

At least one person said they were on different planets. As far as who has progressed faster I have to believe that a year at the OTC would lead one to progress faster. I do give Ramos the national stare down championship! He has earned that.

That is just one person. The other comments are completely objective and there is nothing wrong with what is being said about Graff now. I get it, youre from Wisconsin, or have family there and pull for Graff.

Lets use the transitive property though for sake of argument. The best wrestler that both Ramos and Graff have wrested is Shopp from Edinboro. Ramos majored him 9-0. Graff dec him 6-0. By the transitive property that means that Ramos is at least 3 points better than Graff, so your Graff lean cannot be right!!!

All kidding aside. Again, nobody is saying Graff isnt good, its just that THIS YEAR Ramos almost everyone feels that Ramos is just that much better. I have friends that are ISU, Iowa, UNI, Minnesota, etc.....fans that feel that 133 is Ramos and Streebler and then everyone else. In fact, most other fans feel the same way. This is in no way a slight to Graff, but instead a compliment to the abilities of both Streebler and Ramos.

Thats all I have to say about the subject now. And, I will still hold true to the B1G seeding it 1. Streebler, 2. Ramos, 3. Conaway, and 4. Graff. If im wrong ill be the first to admit to it.