I guess the question of Graff vs Conaway for the #3 seed comes down to what B1G rules for seeding are vs who you think SHOULD be #3. I think all of us would agree that Graff deserves on his career body of work to be the #3 seed. What do B1G seeding rules dictate? I'm not sure. Conaway won the h2h, but Graff's overall B1G record is better 7-1 vs 6-2. Now Graff didn't wrestle either of the guys that Conaway lost to. But if you base it simply on record, Graff is the #3 seed.

CHOP--You aren't hoping that Conaway gets the #3 seed, anticipating Ramos at #2, are you??

Originally Posted by TomWright25

I guess the question of Graff vs Conaway for the #3 seed comes down to what B1G rules for seeding are vs who you think SHOULD be #3. I think all of us would agree that Graff deserves on his career body of work to be the #3 seed. What do B1G seeding rules dictate? I'm not sure. Conaway won the h2h, but Graff's overall B1G record is better 7-1 vs 6-2. Now Graff didn't wrestle either of the guys that Conaway lost to. But if you base it simply on record, Graff is the #3 seed.

CHOP--You aren't hoping that Conaway gets the #3 seed, anticipating Ramos at #2, are you??

Tom I don't care if Ramos is 1 or 2. All I know as of today is Graff will be the 4 seed. Conaway owns the H2H win over Graff which will come into play during the seeding meeting. Graff can be good but the problem is Tony is good all the time.

I'm good with letting the experts figure it out and let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully before this season is over we see a Graff versus Ramos match, that's what I'm hoping for. Off to the Wisconsin state tournament. Flying out today to watch my nephew wrestle.

Not trying hard to be difficult, but from what I have found it appears that Graff and Ramos have only wrestled once and Graff won the match, so if we go by the H2H I'm not sure who is "pretending" here. Graff is a two time All American, Ramos has done it once. I don't believe there is a big difference between being 3rd or 5th and a lot of that comes down to seeding which is kind of what we are discussing here. Still think this is a 50:50 match up. They are both great wrestlers!

Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan

Sure. If we just make up reasons to discount Graff's loss, it makes it really easy to make the case. HE's been dominating his opponents, and they've all been middling. Wolfensperger has given up bonus to all of his top 10 opponents that I can see. He got pinned by Stieber and majored by Beckman, Mango, and McCormick. Hardly a win to set the world on fire.

Look, you can pretend that this is an even match on paper if you like. There is literally nothing to back it up outside of a Sudden Victory win 2 years ago. Ramos is the returning NCAA 3rd place guy, Graff's highest finish is 5th. Ramos is undefeated, Graff is not. Ramos pinned Conaway, Graff lost. There is no way to favor Graff over Ramos outside of just having a personal rooting interest. Which is fine, but don't hide it.

Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter

Not trying hard to be difficult, but from what I have found it appears that Graff and Ramos have only wrestled once and Graff won the match, so if we go by the H2H I'm not sure who is "pretending" here. Graff is a two time All American, Ramos has done it once. I don't believe there is a big difference between being 3rd or 5th and a lot of that comes down to seeding which is kind of what we are discussing here. Still think this is a 50:50 match up. They are both great wrestlers!

I couldn't disagree more. Sentes also beat Ramos two years ago when Tony didn't AA, but Sentes is not even on the same planet as Tony right now. Comparing a head to head match from two years ago shows us nothing today. Tony has improved at a rapid rate each of the past two seasons and Graff hasn't done much to show that he has taken that next step as a wrestler to rise above being a mid-AA. You really have no rock to stand on daisy cutter. Graff has not been near as impressive this year as Ramos and calling it a 50:50 match, while citing a match from two years ago is just a waste of time. If Graff had trouble handling Conway's gas tank he is going to be in for a world of hurt when he wrestles Tony

Also, IMO Conway should get the three seed

Agreed 1stplace. Besides, head to head 2 years ago does not hold weight in a seeding meeting. THIS YEARS head to head will hold the most weight in a seeding meeting, not last years AAs, or common opponent, etc....head to head holds the most weight. Otherwise the transitive property would be an ultimate decider which we all know is total bull. Styles dictate match ups and sometimes people are bad match ups.

I dont care if Ramos gets the 1 seed either and Graff gets the 4. Graff deserves the 4 seed based on performance this year alone. Thats what it comes down to. Either way, Graff will struggle with this years version of Ramos. Conaway made him break physically in their match when he broke his gas tank. Lord knows how bad its going to be with Ramos whos gas tank never runs out.

Besides, their match 2 years ago was a 125lb Ramos who moved up to 133lbs because McD held that spot firmly. Ramos is much larger this year, 2 years later, and im not sure that he would even be able to get down to 125 anymore.

Well Graff obviously doesn't have a gas tank like Ramos. Graff will gas like he always does and Ramos would run circles around him at that time. Ramos and Streebler are on different plants than Graff. Graff needs to prove he belongs before saying stuff like this.

Did you see the match with Conaway? As I said previously, I believe Graff hit his head as in, was literally knocked silly. Graff doesn't gas. It appears that you guys haven't seen him wrestle this year. I don't care what Graff is seeded, but after reading all the nonsense on this board I can't wait for a Graff versus Ramos match! I'll either be pulling my wrestling shoe out of my mouth or gloating mightily.

Originally Posted by dback_5

Agreed 1stplace. Besides, head to head 2 years ago does not hold weight in a seeding meeting. THIS YEARS head to head will hold the most weight in a seeding meeting, not last years AAs, or common opponent, etc....head to head holds the most weight. Otherwise the transitive property would be an ultimate decider which we all know is total bull. Styles dictate match ups and sometimes people are bad match ups.

I dont care if Ramos gets the 1 seed either and Graff gets the 4. Graff deserves the 4 seed based on performance this year alone. Thats what it comes down to. Either way, Graff will struggle with this years version of Ramos. Conaway made him break physically in their match when he broke his gas tank. Lord knows how bad its going to be with Ramos whos gas tank never runs out.

Besides, their match 2 years ago was a 125lb Ramos who moved up to 133lbs because McD held that spot firmly. Ramos is much larger this year, 2 years later, and im not sure that he would even be able to get down to 125 anymore.