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Thread: Dake vs Taylor II

  1. #19

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    I'm not so sure that having a growth spurt while in college is really all that impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    Because wrestling is a sport that separates it's competitors by weight because it would be unfair to make smaller people wrestle larger people, and Dake keeps going up and winning. The same reason why some of the most impressive pieces on professional boxers and MMA fighter resumes is if they win titles at multiple weight classes.

    You can't participate in a sport where weight classes are an important part of the structure and discount people moving up and continuing to succeed.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Your argument would hold some merit had Dake weighed at 141 all years and still won. The fact is he has been enormous at each weight. Including this year. Its a very unique thing, but it is no more/less impressive than if he stayed at 141 each year. Just because something is rare doesnt necessarily make it more/less difficult. Its hard to find humans who can legit put on 25 pounds of pure muscle like Dake has. His growing accomplishment speaks more to how he builds his body than anything. His 4 titles will speak to how great he is.
    Somewhat disagree with you here in that he's had the capability of staying at 157 if he had wanted to. He's kind of "been there, done that". The competition for him was greater at 165 and specifically with Taylor. No one would have said he was "ducking" Taylor had he not gone up. He made this match-up happen. I commend him for going up to 165 to go get his 4th title.

    I still find his first title his most impressive however.
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  3. #21

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Done picking against Dake. Just done.
    I think this about sums it up. Dake just consistently defies all doubters. Grant it - his FS year against Marion, the doubt was legit, even though he only had two OT losses on the year. Then, his Soph year, people doubted that he would win his second, which was justified since he had a recent loss to LeValley and was seeded 4th. But he not only won, he never got scored on (the only point against him was the penalty point against Tank in the finals).

    After that, I think Dake has proven you can't pick against him. And I would like to thank Dake for going up yet another weight class to face off with last year's Hodge winner so that he can continue to spark this debate about the only person that has a legitimate shot at beating Dake. (He won't, but if anyone beats Dake, it will be Taylor.)

    Of course, as any wrestling fan knows, anything is possible. I remember watching Kolat dominate 2X champ Jaworsky in the 1994 All Star match, which back then was in late January. I thought there was no way that Jaworsky would win his third. Then, at NCAAs, Kolat lost to Mohammadi in a major upset in the semis and Jaworsky cruised to his third championship.

    But - for what its worth, I would never pick against Dake either

  4. #22
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Your argument would hold some merit had Dake weighed at 141 all years and still won. The fact is he has been enormous at each weight. Including this year. Its a very unique thing, but it is no more/less impressive than if he stayed at 141 each year. Just because something is rare doesnt necessarily make it more/less difficult. Its hard to find humans who can legit put on 25 pounds of pure muscle like Dake has. His growing accomplishment speaks more to how he builds his body than anything. His 4 titles will speak to how great he is.
    THis is just wrong-headed. He keeps growing, keeps facing bigger wrestlers, and keeps winning. No, being unique in and of itself doesn't make something difficult, but it's a pretty good indicator, and the fact that wrestling as a sport divides itself by weight makes it impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Youre basically suggesting that the higher weight you wrestle, the more difficult it becomes. By that logic every heavyweight is the best wrestler for wrestling the highest possible weight. We all know thats not the case though.
    Pretty sure that the guy who wins heavyweight would beat pretty much everybody else in college. There used to be stories about NW doing King of the Mountain back when Herbert was there, and Herbert lost to Dustin Fox with little issue. SIze matters. AGain, that's why there are weight classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter View Post
    I'm not so sure that having a growth spurt while in college is really all that impressive.
    Because that's all it is. A growth spurt. Ridiculous.
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  5. #23

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    After reading your Herbert story Im really starting to believe you think Dake still weighs 141 pounds. HERBERTS AN 84 lber wrestling someone 100 lbs bigger. Of course he lost. Dake is not smaller than these guys, youre a smart guy. Think.
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  6. #24
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    After reading your Herbert story Im really starting to believe you think Dake still weighs 141 pounds. HERBERTS AN 84 lber wrestling someone 100 lbs bigger. Of course he lost. Dake is not smaller than these guys, youre a smart guy. Think.
    Your the one who brought up the point about heavyweight. Yes, the heavyweight champion is 99/100 times the best wrestler, no weight classes, in the country. Because in a world with no weight classes, the best wrestler is the one who wins the matches, not the most subjectively skilled.

    Dake has wrestled a bigger weight class every year. He himself as adapted and come up to meet each new set of challenges. You're dismissing it because he's the same weight now, but the point is that he wasn't just the year before. He grew, added muscle mass, and then took his style to a new set of challenges with new physical skill sets. And he continues to exert his will. He's not having the advantage of getting to face his opponents multiple times, figure out works best for their styles, etc. like a guy like McDonough, whom I love, who has seen a lot of the same opponents repeatedly.
    Jacob Schlottke---Gone too soon, and the world is a little less bright because of it. RIP, brother.

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  7. #25

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    It's hard to say, sometimes you grow into a weight class that's less competitive than the one you left. I think it's a false premise that it's tougher to win a championship as you move up in weight, so other than Dake's body adapting and growing, what's the added level of difficulty? Winning four titles is the tough thing.

  8. #26
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    It's hard to say, sometimes you grow into a weight class that's less competitive than the one you left. I think it's a false premise that it's tougher to win a championship as you move up in weight, so other than Dake's body adapting and growing, what's the added level of difficulty? Winning four titles is the tough thing.
    ++1

  9. #27
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    One thing I will add in support of the '4 classes is harder' side-
    As you move up, especially that many weight classes, you do have to adjust to a different style of wrestling. You see a different kind of movement being successful. Dake is probably moving through the least different 4 weight classes (compare 174 pounders to HWT or 125 pounders to 149, they just move differently), but still he has to adjust to different wrestling styles.

    But otherwise, you only wrestle one group of wrestlers each year. I'm not sold that wrestling the same group is easier because they (in theory) are also wrestling you and learning/adapting to your style. It is a two-way street. In some ways, I feel like it may be harder to keep beating the same guy who is close in ability than it is to keep beating new guys close in ability.

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