Originally Posted by ODH

After watching the Dake-Taylor FS match it is hard not to pick Dake. I know it is a different style and all that, but Dake thoroughly schooled him.

If Dake wins this matchup and then title number #4 at either weight, my book has him as second best NCAA wrestler ever behind Cael.

With a handful of brain-fart losses in his career, I have trouble putting Dake ahead of Gable.

Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion

With a handful of brain-fart losses in his career, I have trouble putting Dake ahead of Gable.

Fair enough, although I think people tend to add in Gable's Olympic and Coaching accomplishments to his college career.
It is difficult to compare their careers as Gable could not wrestle his Freshman year, but Gable did have his only loss when it mattered most.

I also think I am giving Dake too much credit for winning multiple weight classes. This sounds hugely impressive at first, but really so what? The fact that he grew in college does not make him a better wrestler than someone who didn't.

Originally Posted by ODH

I also think I am giving Dake too much credit for winning multiple weight classes. This sounds hugely impressive at first, but really so what? The fact that he grew in college does not make him a better wrestler than someone who didn't.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought about it, but just like everyone else, he just has to be the best at a given weight for that one year. It's not like he would have been the best every year at all four weights. When it gets hyped as Four at Four, it subconsciously seems like he owned all four weights the whole time.

Huh

Didn't recall that he never got away, but what I remember was that DSJ was constrantly getting to his feet, got out of bounds frequently for restarts, was never turned, and although evidently ridden was not really controled as I've seen Dake due to others. I was mightily impressed with DSJ's work on bottom. DC

Originally Posted by vaisforlovers

What are you talking about? DSJ DIDNT get away from Dake. At any point. Ever. Recall DSJ took neutral after being ridden out the 1st period.

DT has a legitimate chance of reversing Dake. DT reverses almost everyone..

So he didn't get out, but he did an outstanding job of not scoring.

Got it.

Originally Posted by ODH

Fair enough, although I think people tend to add in Gable's Olympic and Coaching accomplishments to his college career.
It is difficult to compare their careers as Gable could not wrestle his Freshman year, but Gable did have his only loss when it mattered most.

I also think I am giving Dake too much credit for winning multiple weight classes. This sounds hugely impressive at first, but really so what? The fact that he grew in college does not make him a better wrestler than someone who didn't.

ODH--I don't know how far back you go--whether you got to see Gable wrestle while in college. I was a contemporary and he was a legend before his olympic and coaching careers. It wasn't just the unbeaten string (as great as that was), but also the way he dominated opponents. He was an incredible pinner, more dominating than Dake against tough guys. Not taking anything at all from Dake--a phenomenal wrestler!! Just wanted to chime in that Gable was legendary even as a college wrestler before his other careers. Agree that the fact Gable couldn't wrestle his FR year makes comparison more difficult.

Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion

That's a good point. I hadn't thought about it, but just like everyone else, he just has to be the best at a given weight for that one year. It's not like he would have been the best every year at all four weights. When it gets hyped as Four at Four, it subconsciously seems like he owned all four weights the whole time.

Huh

Right. It is not the same as boxing, where a guy moving up in weight has to beat a current, defending champ to claim the new weight. Generally, an NCAA weight doesn't have a defending champ in it year after year. In all three of his titles, Dake did not have to face a defending champ (champs before him: 141=Jaggers, 149=Metclaf, 157=Jenkins). By moving up to 165, he has a shot at Taylor, who not only is the defending champ at 165 but also the defending Hodge winner as well as the OW at NCAAs (WOW, just read that. I'm sure that would be unprecedented).

Which begs the question, would Dake be able to beat the three listed predecessors at his championship weights

Originally Posted by oldfart

Right. It is not the same as boxing, where a guy moving up in weight has to beat a current, defending champ to claim the new weight. Generally, an NCAA weight doesn't have a defending champ in it year after year. In all three of his titles, Dake did not have to face a defending champ (champs before him: 141=Jaggers, 149=Metclaf, 157=Jenkins). By moving up to 165, he has a shot at Taylor, who not only is the defending champ at 165 but also the defending Hodge winner as well as the OW at NCAAs (WOW, just read that. I'm sure that would be unprecedented).

Which begs the question, would Dake be able to beat the three listed predecessors at his championship weights

Interesting question "of". Since we'll never know, we can say anything we like. Under no pressure, and considering Dake wrestling sequentially as a FR, SO, JR I would say: 141--unlikely to be 2x champ Jaggers ; 149--unlikely to beat Metcalf 157--Jenkins--depends on which Jenkins shows up, but I think Dake as JR wins 4 out of 5.