It never ceases to amaze me the readiness of people to pile on and kick someone when they're down--or when someone else says they're down.

Bobcat mentioned a salient fact: 3rd place NCAA last year. The sign of a bad program or an "average" coach? Not to me.

There's also a logical fallacy that keeps surfacing: that because PSU is in a top wrestling state, and they have good facilities and money that there's no reason they can't win the NCAAs except that the coach is not up to snuff. Here's another salient fact: there are only four active coaches (J. Smith, Robinson, Zalesky, Tom Brands) who've won a national title. There are probably reasons other than bad coaching that this list is not longer.

This year, PSU finished 17th. Minn was 14th, Okla State 16th, and Okla 31st in those hotbeds of wrestling. Woah! Must be some bad coaches out there. Off with their heads!

Originally Posted by willtowin

I have my own feelings as to why these recruits dont pan out. 50,000 students, a party every night on every block, huge football games, hot tail everywhere... Its hard to keep a 18/19 year old kid on the straight and narrow under these social conditions. IMO, its all about oversight. These kids just may need professional chaperone's.

Thoughts??

You are probably pretty young, and you might listen to sports talk radio.

Few schools ever get as high as third place. In 2007 Penn St finished 11th, and in 2006 9th. Not great. But not bad.

Good argument about Ohio State, but then they may have found an exceptional coach. As I recall Ryan boosted Hofstra's fortunes as well.

As for Spates, not too many years ago it seems like Okla was always surprising with a top 5 finish at the NCAAs.

Originally Posted by matclone

It never ceases to amaze me the readiness of people to pile on and kick someone when they're down--or when someone else says they're down.

Bobcat mentioned a salient fact: 3rd place NCAA last year. The sign of a bad program or an "average" coach? Not to me.

There's also a logical fallacy that keeps surfacing: that because PSU is in a top wrestling state, and they have good facilities and money that there's no reason they can't win the NCAAs except that the coach is not up to snuff. Here's another salient fact: there are only four active coaches (J. Smith, Robinson, Zalesky, Tom Brands) who've won a national title. There are probably reasons other than bad coaching that this list is not longer.

This year, PSU finished 17th. Minn was 14th, Okla State 16th, and Okla 31st in those hotbeds of wrestling. Woah! Must be some bad coaches out there. Off with their heads!

Boo-ya!!

You guys all gloss over the fact that Sunderland had a young team and many injuries that resulted in their poor showing this season.

Ummm yeah, Im no spring chicken man. Im aware of the Big Ten party scenario, I know PSU isnt the only school that likes to party. Im just trying to figure out "why" these recruits don't pan out. Seems like alot of them get into trouble, both socially and academically. Those are two by-products of too much partying. If these other Big Ten teams can keep their recruits on track why cant PSU? There has got to be something different happening so what is it?

And MatClone, I get it, youre a fan of Sunderland. He is a great guy, no doubt about it. He gives 100% too, which is great. But why cant people expect more out of PSU than what he has produced? Why cant people want PSU to be NCAA champs?

and BTW, Spates should resign along with Sunderland, because he is simply not getting it done. Both coaches shelf lives are over. End of story.

Expectations at Penn St were much higher than at MN, OK St and Oklahoma this year. That is why it is such a huge disapointment to finish so low at Penn St this year and not so much at those other schools. OK ST and MN both have great recruits coming in and the fans know they will be back to where they belong in no time. That isnt the case at Penn St.