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Thread: Sunderland Update

  1. #10
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    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    It never ceases to amaze me the readiness of people to pile on and kick someone when they're down--or when someone else says they're down.

    Bobcat mentioned a salient fact: 3rd place NCAA last year. The sign of a bad program or an "average" coach? Not to me.

    There's also a logical fallacy that keeps surfacing: that because PSU is in a top wrestling state, and they have good facilities and money that there's no reason they can't win the NCAAs except that the coach is not up to snuff. Here's another salient fact: there are only four active coaches (J. Smith, Robinson, Zalesky, Tom Brands) who've won a national title. There are probably reasons other than bad coaching that this list is not longer.

    This year, PSU finished 17th. Minn was 14th, Okla State 16th, and Okla 31st in those hotbeds of wrestling. Woah! Must be some bad coaches out there. Off with their heads!

  2. #11
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    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    Quote Originally Posted by willtowin View Post
    I have my own feelings as to why these recruits dont pan out. 50,000 students, a party every night on every block, huge football games, hot tail everywhere... Its hard to keep a 18/19 year old kid on the straight and narrow under these social conditions. IMO, its all about oversight. These kids just may need professional chaperone's.

    Thoughts??
    You are probably pretty young, and you might listen to sports talk radio.

  3. #12

    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    But the third place was the aberration, not the rule for PSU. You're right about Minny, OSU and OU, but they get a pass because this was a down year for them. (And quite frankly, not many OU fans are still willing to give Spates a pass.) If those school stay in the gutter much longer, you can guarantee that their fans will be screaming for those coaches' heads.

    Again, I'm not saying Sunderland's a bad guy, but Penn St. reminds me a lot of Ohio St. in that they had no excuse to not be a power house in the Big Ten. Ohio St. made a change at coach, and look at what they've done since then.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    Few schools ever get as high as third place. In 2007 Penn St finished 11th, and in 2006 9th. Not great. But not bad.

    Good argument about Ohio State, but then they may have found an exceptional coach. As I recall Ryan boosted Hofstra's fortunes as well.

    As for Spates, not too many years ago it seems like Okla was always surprising with a top 5 finish at the NCAAs.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me the readiness of people to pile on and kick someone when they're down--or when someone else says they're down.

    Bobcat mentioned a salient fact: 3rd place NCAA last year. The sign of a bad program or an "average" coach? Not to me.

    There's also a logical fallacy that keeps surfacing: that because PSU is in a top wrestling state, and they have good facilities and money that there's no reason they can't win the NCAAs except that the coach is not up to snuff. Here's another salient fact: there are only four active coaches (J. Smith, Robinson, Zalesky, Tom Brands) who've won a national title. There are probably reasons other than bad coaching that this list is not longer.

    This year, PSU finished 17th. Minn was 14th, Okla State 16th, and Okla 31st in those hotbeds of wrestling. Woah! Must be some bad coaches out there. Off with their heads!
    Boo-ya!!

    You guys all gloss over the fact that Sunderland had a young team and many injuries that resulted in their poor showing this season.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    It doesn't seem like if he is dismissed, that it will just be for this season's performance. That story did say something about the worst winning percentage for any PSU coach, right?

    It's not that I'm advocating for Sunderland to get fired. What I am advocating is for wrestling fans to hold their coaches to a higher standard. Certain programs -- and not just Penn St. -- who are fully funded, have good facilities and are in good wrestling states should be doing better than they are. More competitive programs is what is good for this sport, because as much as I love seeing my Tigers do well, it is much better for the sport if there is strength all over the country.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestater View Post
    It doesn't seem like if he is dismissed, that it will just be for this season's performance. That story did say something about the worst winning percentage for any PSU coach, right?

    It's not that I'm advocating for Sunderland to get fired. What I am advocating is for wrestling fans to hold their coaches to a higher standard. Certain programs -- and not just Penn St. -- who are fully funded, have good facilities and are in good wrestling states should be doing better than they are. More competitive programs is what is good for this sport, because as much as I love seeing my Tigers do well, it is much better for the sport if there is strength all over the country.
    I wouldn't even limit that to the ones that are in good wrestling states...
    Super 32 Challenge - October 26-27, 2013

    "Good things happen when you wrestle for a full seven minutes." -- Jayson Ness, post-finals press conference

  8. #17

    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    Ummm yeah, Im no spring chicken man. Im aware of the Big Ten party scenario, I know PSU isnt the only school that likes to party. Im just trying to figure out "why" these recruits don't pan out. Seems like alot of them get into trouble, both socially and academically. Those are two by-products of too much partying. If these other Big Ten teams can keep their recruits on track why cant PSU? There has got to be something different happening so what is it?

    And MatClone, I get it, youre a fan of Sunderland. He is a great guy, no doubt about it. He gives 100% too, which is great. But why cant people expect more out of PSU than what he has produced? Why cant people want PSU to be NCAA champs?

    and BTW, Spates should resign along with Sunderland, because he is simply not getting it done. Both coaches shelf lives are over. End of story.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Sunderland Update

    Expectations at Penn St were much higher than at MN, OK St and Oklahoma this year. That is why it is such a huge disapointment to finish so low at Penn St this year and not so much at those other schools. OK ST and MN both have great recruits coming in and the fans know they will be back to where they belong in no time. That isnt the case at Penn St.

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