He had a great year, but when you get older, it's a long season and maybe he lost his stamina. Fact is he didn't come through when it counted. DC

Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter

VAIS, I was hoping you were a Ravens fan. I've had many battles on the aforementioned Refuge Forum in regard Flacco versus Brady. Although Brady's team won 2 or was it 3 Superbowls in his first 4 years, Flacco actually has better numbers. I'm a big Eli fan. Living under Peyton's shadow has to be tough, Eli is one tough SOB. I"m also a big Brady fan being a Big 10 guy and all. DC

Just getting to TWT after a couple of days. DC--I don't see how you can realistically try to compare Flacco vs Brady. We're talking about a Brady who has established himself as one of the all-time greats vs a Flacco who is just showing potential. You can't just look at statistics (as significant as they are) to evaluate a player. There are also the intangibles. Brady has them. I'm speaking as a huge Peyton Manning fan, but I have to give Brady a lot of credit. He comes through (most of the time) in the clutch. No one comes through 100%. But he comes through more than almost anyone else. At the risk of generating another debate, I think Tebow also has those intangibles. His statistics aren't all that impressive. But his 4th quarter wins are very impressive. Some players have that and that makes them winners.

Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter

He had a great year, but when you get older, it's a long season and maybe he lost his stamina. Fact is he didn't come through when it counted. DC

This makes no sense when trying to say Flacco is better. By this rationale only one QB comes through when it counts in every year. So far Flacco has not been that guy. Brees has been that guy. I understand that Flacco has potential to be great, but Brees, Rodgers, Brady and both Mannings already are great. I would pick any of those guys to start in a super bowl over Flacco. Just MHO.

Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan

Brees is very good, but overrated. He turns the ball over nearly as much as Eli does, but he plays in a dome at least 9 games a year (8 in the Super Dome + 1 at ATL) and plays in pretty good weather conditions in his other two divisional opponents stadiums. His stats are inflated due to this, but it shows up almost every time they play on the road in adverse weather of any kind.

So basically you're saying he is the perfect qb for the team he is on and a perfect qb for any Super Bowl. I'll take that.

Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan

I'm saying that just because he's in an ideal situation doesn't mean he's this all-time great.

Let me start my reply by saying that I thought we were talking about today's greats not all-time greats. If we were going for all-time and Montana was never mentioned then I think I would have noticed that. But on a similar note, Emmit Smith became the NFL's all-time leading rusher because he was in a perfect situation. What would have happened if he and Barry Sanders switched teams? That's one reason I don't put as much stock in the arguments of where people play. You still have to do the job. Brees and Big Ben have both done their jobs.