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Thread: IU lands another stud to ruin

  1. #28
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    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    Ky. does it very poorly .
    Are are talking about the state, not the product, correct?

  2. #29

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Oregon and Washington both have FIVE divisions. Oregon used to have three which I really liked. When we went to five a couple of years ago all it did was divide the top classes down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  3. #30

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    Are are talking about the state, not the product, correct?
    Haha!

  4. #31

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    Oregon and Washington both have FIVE divisions. Oregon used to have three which I really liked. When we went to five a couple of years ago all it did was divide the top classes down.
    I'm not sure when PA switched to 2 divisions. When I was growing up there was just one state-wide tourney and it was single elimination. You lose once, you're out (for sectionals, districts, regionals and states). I liked the drama that produced (although it hurt me), as every bout was a winner-take-all. And the state champ was the undisputed champ for the whole state. The new system allows kids from smaller schools to have a better shot at earning a state championship, but the resulting title doesn't mean quite as much as it used to. Just MO.

  5. #32

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    Are are talking about the state, not the product, correct?
    Please not this thread too!
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  6. #33

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Quote Originally Posted by TomWright25 View Post
    I'm not sure when PA switched to 2 divisions. When I was growing up there was just one state-wide tourney and it was single elimination. You lose once, you're out (for sectionals, districts, regionals and states). I liked the drama that produced (although it hurt me), as every bout was a winner-take-all. And the state champ was the undisputed champ for the whole state. The new system allows kids from smaller schools to have a better shot at earning a state championship, but the resulting title doesn't mean quite as much as it used to. Just MO.
    I'm really torn when it comes to the number of classifications needed and what is "best" for the sport. I grew up going to a 4A school (then Oregon's largest classification) but I have coached at 2A schools (we compete along with 1A schools in a combined state tournament so we're the smallest classification). The competition level is not even close between the bigger and smaller schools. There are some exceptions (Lowell, Crane, Culver, Gold Beach, etc.) that may be able to hang with the bigger schools in tournaments or duals but most of the smaller schools wouldn't send a single kid to State, or win a single dual match. As great as it would be from a fan's perspective to have a one classification state championship, it would effectively kill over half of the small school programs. You just don't have the same resources at a small school as you do a large school. It's not uncommon for our guys to have to move up/down 2, 3, or 4 weight classes to find a partner,2 and sometimes that partner is a poor match for them. Our 120 pounder had to go up to 145 to find a decent match, at my last school I had a senior 215 that was an absolute animal and his practice partner was a freshman that couldn't do 10 good push ups or a single pull up. Either that or a senior girl that was 5'4" and 200 lbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  7. #34

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    I'm really torn when it comes to the number of classifications needed and what is "best" for the sport. I grew up going to a 4A school (then Oregon's largest classification) but I have coached at 2A schools (we compete along with 1A schools in a combined state tournament so we're the smallest classification). The competition level is not even close between the bigger and smaller schools. There are some exceptions (Lowell, Crane, Culver, Gold Beach, etc.) that may be able to hang with the bigger schools in tournaments or duals but most of the smaller schools wouldn't send a single kid to State, or win a single dual match. As great as it would be from a fan's perspective to have a one classification state championship, it would effectively kill over half of the small school programs. You just don't have the same resources at a small school as you do a large school. It's not uncommon for our guys to have to move up/down 2, 3, or 4 weight classes to find a partner,2 and sometimes that partner is a poor match for them. Our 120 pounder had to go up to 145 to find a decent match, at my last school I had a senior 215 that was an absolute animal and his practice partner was a freshman that couldn't do 10 good push ups or a single pull up. Either that or a senior girl that was 5'4" and 200 lbs.
    You make a good point, Snackem, presenting the other side of the story!

  8. #35

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    I would add that often people will mention an individual or two from a small school that perform at the highest level and I would put every one of our state champs and most of the 2nds up against anyone in the state at any level, but after that the drop off is huge. A state qualifier from a small school isn't on the same level as a state qualifier from a larger school.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  9. #36

    Default Re: IU lands another stud to ruin

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    I would add that often people will mention an individual or two from a small school that perform at the highest level and I would put every one of our state champs and most of the 2nds up against anyone in the state at any level, but after that the drop off is huge. A state qualifier from a small school isn't on the same level as a state qualifier from a larger school.
    For the most part exactly this is the case in NY. The best small school guys are generally just as good as the top large schoolers or maybe sometimes just a notch below, but the depth of talent in the small school tournament just isn't there. This is why I like the idea of sending multiple reps from each section to a single division state tournament. Send at a minimum the sectional champ, then also the winner of a match between the 2nd and 3rd place guys (TRUE second). Then let the sections fight it out for wildcard reps after it is settled. Doing it this way, the small schools will get their quality guys into states, and the competition at the state tournament isn't watered down. We have had guys tech their way through the small school tournament without breaking a sweat in the past (I think actually Paddock was one of them) and at that moment it was clear that NY didn't get the new format right.

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