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Thread: McD or Megaludis?

  1. #1
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default McD or Megaludis?

    My general question is, how much do wrestlers improve during college; I'll use McD and Megaludis as an example since they fit the description, though I don't mean for this to be about those two specifically

    We have a true frosh meet a RS JR in the finals and the RS JR wins. Assuming both stay at the weight (and VA assures us one of them will), who is likely to improve more in the next year, and who is more likely to win?

    It seems that the true freshman's learning/improvement curve should be a lot steeper (should improve more) than that of a guy who already has 4 years of college experience.

    Would you think the young guy is more likely to get the win as a sophomore, or does the experienced senior still get the win? It seems to me that I usually expect the senior guy to stay on top, which means that maybe a lot of wrestlers aren't making huge improvements once they hit college.

  2. #2

    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    I would think both wrestlers would continue to improve as they grow older. Perhaps the younger one has the potential for a steeper development curve, but not necessarily. Normally wrestlers don't peak until mid-twenties or later, so as long as they are still trying to improve I think both should be continuing to develop.

    I like Nico's spunk and abilities and the sky's the limit for him. But I don't think he'll beat McD next year. McD doesn't strike me as someone who lives off of past glories but continues to work hard to improve. The only issue is if McD were to be too big for the weight. Iowa fans seem to think not.

  3. #3

    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    One other thought on this--as your question was about athletes in general and not just Nico and McD. Development of athletes is so hard to predict as there are a myriad of individual factors. Sometimes you get everything in place (physical development, coaching, psychological--confidence) at a point and the athlete makes a quantum leap. It's hard to predict, but is very observable when it happens. Dake would be an example of that. "Only" ranked 4th coming out of HS (how many of us would have loved to be "only" ranked 4th), he won the NCAA's right off the bat as a true FR and has never looked back. Something came together for him in college. There are many other examples like PSU's Phil Davis that was never a HS state champ (I believe never higher than 4th) and was a 4-time AA including NCAA champ. Other athletes seem to peak out as a Fr and never seem to get better. So I don't think you can make any major generalizations except that all things being equal and athlete will improve some as he matures.

  4. #4

    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    It's kind of like when Arnold was going for his last Mr. Universe and Olympia. He wasn't worried about the young Ferigno. In the movie "Pumping Iron", Arnold and his buddies were laying on the beach and one of them woke Arnold up to let him know he was going to NY to train with Lou for a few weeks. He wondered if Arnold had anything he'd like to tell him. Arnold told him to tell him Hi. His buddy pointed out that Lou is more hungry and might be working harder than Arnold since Arnold had already won both titles numerous times. Arnold pointed out that Lou might be more hungry but when youre the top dog you get to eat whenever you want.

    I think Arnolds point was that he might not spend as much time in the gym as he used to but the time he does spend there is quality and he's not cheating himself. He didnt have much room for improvement, just fine tuning. Same with McD. There is always improvements to be made but mostly he's just fine tuning and getting in outrageous shape. Nico has more to learn but will likely not catch up with the top dog. Lou ended up getting third that year. Hopefully Nico does the same next year.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    Improvement is difficult to predict. Depends how good guys are coming into college(if a guy is great in HS theyll be great right away, but might not improve as much). A guy like Jordan Burroughs had unlimited upside and wasnt that great coming into college. Between work ethic and athleticism he became world class. A guys willingness to train hard all the time is a big factor and the coaching/partner is another big aspect.

    Nico has shown he can improve, he avenged losses to Perelli and Sanders. How much better will he get? As far as measurability, i think he wont improve his placement, but i see him being a more consistent guy next year. I still view Delgado as a better talent personally.

    One thing to consider is that head to head McD pulled away from Megaludis when you compare their two meetings. I think nico will get better, but not manage as high of placement. Though Zapp would assert that improvement/skill can only be measured by NCAA placements.
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  6. #6
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    McD only has less room to improve if you think that being a NCAA champ is the end all be all.

    Askren made the USA team but didn't do much at the Olympics. But he beat Herbert in a exhibition match last year at the Midlands when Jake was a Silver medalist. Go figure. No matter the level improvement is the name of the game.

    I think the best guys in any competition measure their own performances against themselves. Like distance track athletes can run against another runner OR they can race against the clock. I think ultimately for yourself thats all you can do: Keep your eye on the mountain top & keep moving forward.

  7. #7
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    Herk,
    Arnold also told Lou and his father that LOU was just too big and freakish to win ! He psyched Lou out big time .
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

  8. #8

    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    Herk,
    Arnold also told Lou and his father that LOU was just too big and freakish to win ! He psyched Lou out big time .

    I thought that was great mind games that Arnold was playing with him. You could tell that, at least outwardly, he was supremely confident. Lou was kind of still in awe of Arnold at the time. For the standards back in the day Lou was too big and freakish to win. Not until Dorian Yates did they start looking for freakishly huge mass.

    That was a great documentary. I watched it for the first time on youtube last night when I couldnt sleep. Think I'll watch it over so I can pick up the parts where I was dozing off.

    I think, like Arnold, McD has the mental edge on the competition as well. He should. I've not met a 3X returning finalist that wouldnt/shouldnt have a mental edge on his competition. Champions always think they're better than everyone else...even when theyre not.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

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  9. #9

    Default Re: McD or Megaludis?

    As far as the original example, true freshman vs RS junior, I think it comes down to that old saying "I taught you everything you know, but not everything I know". I'm sure that there are little tricks that a guy like McD has learned over the years that Megaludis still doesn't know yet. So, yeah, the freshman has mores areas where he can improve, but I don't think the overall improvement he can make will pass a 2x champ and 3x finalist in one year.

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