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Thread: Cael: ISU and Penn State

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    Default Cael: ISU and Penn State

    Why wasn't Cael able to win at Iowa State but puts together back to back Titles at Penn State?

    ISU has a greater tradition of top level wrestling than Penn State.

    I am glad he is having success in PA but still can't figure out why he did not do so at ISU?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    Well, his immediate success was probably that fact that he was able to combine talent from ISU and PSU. There's no way PSU wins the title last year without Long and Taylor. Its debatable whether or not they would have won this year without DT. Despite the fact that ISU has a superior wrestling tradition, PSU sits in the middle of some of the best recruiting areas in the country and has enough tradition in its own right to be a very attractive destination for top recruits.
    "Whatever you are, be a good one." Abraham Lincoln

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    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    [QUOTE=zzyzx;459709]Why wasn't Cael able to win at Iowa State but puts together back to back Titles at Penn State?

    ISU has a greater tradition of top level wrestling than Penn State.


    This may have been true before Gable transformed Iowa into the IDEAL program .If you were a recruit and had to choose between a back to back National title holder to a program and a program that is bust (i've given KJ long enough to turn things around ) where would you go ? Also, had Cael stayed at ISU he'd have HIS recruiting class to work with .
    and , time to face reality , the big 4 is weakening each year.A 4 team conference should be outlawed .
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

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    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    time to face reality , the big 4 is weakening each year.A 4 team conference should be outlawed .
    I agree completely. That's not even enough to have a separate division of a conference in football. They need to make a plan, and fast. There are some great wrestling traditions in what is left of the big 12 and we absolutely can't lose them. I'd also rather we not see them split up into different conferences that are geographically absurd.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    Didn't WVU join the Big 12? That would put it back up to 5 at least.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by TomWright25 View Post
    Didn't WVU join the Big 12? That would put it back up to 5 at least.
    But Mizzou is leaving.

    In answer to the first question, much has been covered. In addition, except for the Sunderland years, Penn State was the premier Eastern program for many years, with plenty of top 5 performances at the NCAAs to show for it.

    Not to beat a dead horse, but I think Cael recognized the opportunity at Penn State, as stated earlier in this thread, to recruit from a base in the middle of the best high school talent in the country. In this year's finals, for example, there were 5 from PA, 3 from NJ, 3 from OH and one from NY. So that means in PA and the bordering states to it there were 12 of 20 finalists. That's a big geographic advantage that can be used to Cael's advantage. Plus, the more success PSU has, the more attractive it becomes. Even if it can't offer full scholarships, it's relatively affordable to PA kids. If you're Chance Marsteller, I think you're taking notice of the fact PSU had one freshman and two sophomores in the finals this year and that two of them won. Plus, family and friends can come to see you wrestle pretty easy from anywhere in PA. I drive from Northern NJ to State College almost every home dual and it's not a bad drive. Anyone in PA can get there in the same or less time than it takes me.

    In short, talent in close proximity is the reason Cael has been able to be successful at State College. Plus, it seems like the culture in the room at PSU has really taken off in a way it didn't at ISU. Don't know why that is.

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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    On BWI I read a post from a PSU guy who moved to Iowa & was neighbors with Gable. He said he talked to Gable a few years ago & Gable said that PSU was a sleeping Giant.

    I think Cael saw the same thing.

    At that point Cael was 2nd fiddle in Iowa to the Hawkeyes in terms of recruiting.

    A simple stat analysis (I did YEARS ago) shows you that if PSU would have been able to keep any number of in-state guys they would have won numerous NCAA titles over the past 40 years. The list of PA NCAA titlists & All-Americans who went out of state, is long (off the top of my head): Geoff Baum, Verily Long, Greg Ruth, Dan Muthler, Matt Reiss, C.D. Mock, Darkus, Carr, Scott Turner, Rob Koll, Paul Keysaw, Syl Terkay, Jeff Walter, Teague Moore, Greg Jones, Robbie Waller, Jake Herbert, Coleman Scott, Jordan Oliver, Steve Bosak.

    29 out of 33 years has had at least ONE champ from PA. The years of 88 & 89 PA had 9 out of 20 champs.

    So there is a history of the state being a hotbed that NO single school has ever been able to mine properly. Lehigh has probably done the best job of any PA school so far. Cael just used his brain to figure this one out & his results serve that this observation is quite true. And this observation has been rampant in PA for at least 30-40 years.

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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    State/Individuals AAs/Total AAs
    Pennsylvania 368 602
    Oklahoma 294 531
    Iowa 258 463
    Ohio 189 326
    Illinois 179 312
    California 156 247
    New York 154 240
    New Jersey 142 242

    Michigan 118 207
    Minnesota 94 151

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    Default Re: Cael: ISU and Penn State

    Cael appears to have PSU firing on all cylinders and it seems he has the team poised for an extended run. I'm happy the discussion of his coaching ability can be laid to rest.

    Since that is over, I want to take a moment and mention Troy Sunderland here. Molinaro, Ruth, and Wright were all his guys. 3 NCs (and counting) is not too shabby. Wade and Pearsall both had solid seasons (if not good strong post seasons). Taylor and MM almost certainly would not have come, but the Altons were clearly on the staff's radar. He and his staff seem to have laid the foundation for success. Things change, time moves on...

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