Page 1 of 5 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 9 of 37

Thread: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

Hybrid View

  1. #1

    Default National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    Instead of having half a dozen different threads with people complaining about National Duals whey don't we do a more centralized thread focusing on the best and worst aspects? Getting the input from a bunch of people in one place with good and bad will make things easier to understand for the powers that be. Try to keep the outright bitching to a minimum, preferably in the worst aspects.

    Organization and constructive criticism is what I'm looking for here.


    Best aspects:

    1) Regional idea is a great one, gets more teams involved and creates 4 areas with turnout and lessens initial travel.

    2) Streaming coverage was great for me. I didn't have any of the LSV issues other people had but I didn't watch earlier on. Got to watch tons of matches and fostered a bunch of healthy discussion on the boards. Steiber vs Oliver was like a headlining band for this event.

    3) Two week format - I prefer this to the chaotic one-week setup. Give people time to discuss each region and another week to spotlight the main matchups.


    Worst aspects:

    1) Handling of the location and announcement of the finals. Clearly a disaster which pissed off virtually every fan, at least ones on the forums. Announce the finals in advance in a place that is easy to get to and will promote a large turnout. It also was likely a big factor in PSU not attending. Too many unknowns for too many people...

    2) Forum based promotion - the coverage was actually great but it was clear after hearing so many complaints that too many wrestling fans to go the forums and only the forums for info on events. It was promoted quite well on TheMat front page and others like Intermat, but you have to cater to your userbase even if their approach may be silly. Official "sticky" threads on each of the major forums with the requisite links would have went a long way to squashing many complaints.

    3) Exclusion of PSU - I 100% understand why Cael didn't go and don't blame him one bit, but you have to get all the top teams on board with this if this event is going to grow. I think fixing aspect #1 will get all the top teams there in future years, but they have to do whatever it take to make sure the top 6 teams are in every single year.

    Anyone else?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Dart Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Brighton, MN
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    Gantry,
    Good points all around. I will say this from a USAW/TheMat.com standpoint. Traffic wise, our main page gets about 5-6x the amount of traffic the message boards get. Our design, while not always ideal, has been static for several years and frequent visitors to the site know during the college season, the side feature 1 position (non-rotating, to the right of the Top 4-5) is always the college scoreboard. The spot below is designated for Special Sections, like the NYAC, Fargo, Schultz, NCAA's, etc.

    I do see your point regarding the sticky topic on the forum, but too may times I've seen people just bypass the sticky threads, because they don't view them as relevant. We even had some people complain about the lack of coverage on our coverage page, when they didn't take the time to scroll past the twitter box.

    Regarding some of the fan feedback. Some of it you have to take with the nature of the constantly bellyaching wrestling fan. Many of those fans complaining about "fan attendance" wouldn't have shown up if they knew the site well in advance. They'd come up with some other excuse as to why the spot was inferior. Yes, a lot of fans were annoyed/pissed/whatever.

    I'm more disappointed in the fanbase from those respective regions who seem to draw well normally, but bagged it for the regionals. It's like the All-Star Classic. You put on an event with high quality wrestling and people don't show. If people didn't show for the regionals, why would it be valid to assume if you put it in a spot well in advance, people would show up? Picking metros like St. Louis, Chicago, etc., might seem trendy and "easy to get to," but then you open up the can of worms about hotel prices, etc. It's a no-win in a lot of ways.

    I like the regional concept, and I don't think anyone from the NWCA or otherwise in the know have stated "this is how it's always going to be." They needed to put this format into the works to show the NCAA how valid a dual meet championship will be. If people think the NCAA is laughing at us, well, the NCAA has been working with the NWCA on the concept from the onset. The NCAA, if they weren't considering this, wouldn't have taken the time to work with the NWCA on several aspects.

    As far as the location of teams, look at other sports outside of roundball. How often do teams know where they are going to play from week to week? Example, FCS football playoffs. ODU had a home game vs. Norfolk State in the opening round. The knew where they were going for round two, because Georgia Southern had a bye. As for the rest of the draw, Georgia Southern didn't know where it was going to go after beating ODU in the second round. They could have had a home game or gone to two other sites on a one-week notice. Same with the fans. For some reason, I think some of our fanbase is in a bubble about the reality of college sports championships. Soccer doesn't know from game to game because it depends on if the higher seeds win, etc.

    Why we want to make our sport so much different and at the same time, making it in line with other NCAA championships is a question that resembles the chicken and the egg.

    On one hand, you have people clamoring that it shouldn't be in Stillwater, while others see the rationale in having the undefeated #1 team earning the right to host.
    On another hand, you have people complaining about not having a location set, when they know they're not going to attend either way. Then you have people complaining about "fans" when the regionals showed the fickle wrestling fan is going to blow off events if they want, then make excuses after the fact.

    Then there's the point about announcing a site, then having absolutely zero local interest, say if it's a metro like Chicago. Then you fall on your face with no one showing up. What if Minnesota didn't win? What if Oklahoma State didn't win? What if Iowa didn't win? Then where are you with a campus host?

    This isn't a shot at wrestling fans, I know I've been extremely critical of our cynical and hypocritical folks out there who love to hear themselves blabber on with the boards, but sometimes the shoe fits.

  3. #3

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    I really like the 'final four' aspect of the new format, I think it makes the event more marketable to a larger audience. Splitting the event up over 2 weekends also allows for better media coverage and for storylines to emerge (it's tough to get the non-hardcore fans to get excited about a cinderella story if the whole event is over in a day or 2).

    I like the regionals a lot as well. I think its great that fans from different parts of the country get a chance to see top notch wrestling without the same time/financial committment of going to nationals. I also think duals are more fan friendly than tournaments. I think this event could really catch on and I'd expect to see turnouts increase at the regionals in the future (I didn't go this year but plan to in the future).

    My only real complaint is with the location of the final. I understand that Ok St is the #1 team but I think that having a packed house should be the priority, especially with the new format. I'm fine with not announcing the location ahead of time but from an attendance perspective, having the final within driving distance of 3 of the 4 schools attending seems like a no-brainer.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #4

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    Just give the highest seeded team left in the tourney after the Regionals the option to host?

    If you are doing 4 regions, go ahead and have 8 teams in a region or keep it to 4, the 6 seemed to be a bit irrational and gave an advantage to the teams with a bye.

    I love the idea of the National Dual Championships because in most of the years I've seen it's very possible the team with the best individuals on them isn't necessarily the best (deepest) team. I enjoyed the National Duals of years gone by but certainly agree you need the Top 8 in attendance to make it legitimate.

    I applaud the effort.
    "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak."

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Dart Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Brighton, MN
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    What I really love about it is it really does open up the field for a national championship. We saw what Virginia Tech did last year and have seen the great dual teams Edinboro and Central Michigan have put on the mat in recent years.

    I mean, if only 10 teams have won NCAA tournament titles, this makes it a larger pool of teams, allows teams to recruit more broadly and will keep kids on rosters longer and eliminate unnecessary redshirt years, thereby saving scholarship dollars for a program, too.

  6. #6
    NCAA Champ WhippetGrappler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Moved to Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    1,281

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    I believe all other NCAA Championships have neutral sites and are picked at least a year or two ahead of time. They must bid for it also. Why should wrestling be any different. ie.. Columbus, OH is hosting Round 1 of the NCAA March Madness. It is being held at Nationwide Arena in downtown Columbus and Ohio State cannot participate there. This makes it a relatively neutral site for the teams playing there.
    BRUTUS BUCKEYE WILL TAKE YOU DOWN...

  7. #7

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    Not having TV coverage sucked big time! Personnally I rarely watch anything live on my computer screen. If it wasn't for this forum I would have never known the National Duals were even occurring. Marketing was terrible. DC

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Dart Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Brighton, MN
    Posts
    2,866

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter View Post
    If it wasn't for this forum I would have never known the National Duals were even occurring. Marketing was terrible. DC
    This is clearly not the fault of the NWCA if you didn't know it wasn't occurring. Why? Do you visit Flowrestling? Do you visit TheMat.com? Do you visit InterMat? All of those major wrestling sites had information and promos leading up to the event. The NWCA and TheMat.com sites had features, interviews and promos leading up to the event for weeks.

    Marketing for the regionals was absolutely fine. The fact people didn't know about it isn't the fault of the NWCA, but the fault of people clearly not paying attention.

    Blaming marketing for lack of looking for things on major wrestling sites is hardly the fault of the NWCA.

    By the way, we're pretty much a live streaming sport. If you don't want to watch streams on the computer, you're missing out on tons of coverage. It's your right to watch 10 events a year on TV, but you could watch hundreds online.

  9. #9

    Default Re: National Duals - 3 best and 3 worst aspects

    I don't have three good things to say about the duals. I was glad that I got to see some good individual matchups at the Ames region. The team matchups were terrible.

    I would love to see a situation where teams have to qualify in the current season. This would prevent a team like Wisconsin from being able to compete and lose just about every match. I would also like to see it all be on one weekend and have it only be Div I. It could then float around and be held in most arenas. Having all the divisions restricted it to bigger veues like the UNI Dome.

    The marketing needs to be much improved. I'm not a marketing person but I am on a lot of wrestling sites and I barely saw much mention of it. I agree that it needs to be advertised on the forums more. The sites I visit, I rarely go to the news parts, except TOM, they've got the best info IMO. All of that information is talked about in the message boards leaving the news pages redundant. I'm probably not the only one that does that.

    Something needs to be done to attract more fans. The attendance at all the regions was worse than pathetic.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •