Originally Posted by LkwdSteve

That enough of this crap. I don't think you know what Ryan was or was not arguing. Give me a friggin transcirpt of everything that was said during that entire time by everyone before you even think of casting stones at one individual.

Message boards sure would die down if one had to provide as much proof for each post as you are demanding...

I think its safe to say that Ryan was not yelling at the refs and saying that they screwed Zeerip. He was arguing for his guy, when there was absolutely no grounds for it. I know a coach is supposed to step up for his players, but that was an awful call and the whole wrestling world knows it.

I don't buy it.

Tell me what Tom Brands would have done. Tell me what Cael Sanderson would have done. Tell my what Ryan did different.

No one can because they DON'T KNOW what was said word for word. It's all surmise.

I don't believe in castrating people without precise evidence.

"Message boards sure would die down if one had to provide as much proof for each post as you are demanding..."

Yep. I could only wish. At least the supreme court has ruled that message boards are not the safe haven that anonomous accusers think that they are. To call Tom Ryan a lying cheat should be actionable. Unfortunately it isn't because, as I understand it, accusations must be knowingly false to be considered libel. Maybe that will change though.

Originally Posted by LkwdSteve

"Message boards sure would die down if one had to provide as much proof for each post as you are demanding..."

Yep. I could only wish. At least the supreme court has ruled that message boards are not the safe haven that anonomous accusers think that they are. To call Tom Ryan a lying cheat should be actionable. Unfortunately it isn't because, as I understand it, accusations must be knowingly false to be considered libel. Maybe that will change though.

I assume you have proof that Mr. Ryan has never lied or cheated in his life then. One could call just about anyone on this board a "lying cheat" without being libelous. Take it easy Steve.

I believe that Ryan was arguing that he thought the whistle blew as did his wrestler. Which is why Heflin stopped dead on the mat as Zeerip then spun around to the back and scored what was believed to be a takedown and later overruled.

I do think the ref totally blew this call. If he only awarded the escape and assumed the whistle blew, then time should have been added to the clock and both wrestlers should have been in the neutral position.

Obviously when Tom Ryan was doing the "rolling hands" gesture commonly associated with a reversal in wrestling, it's just as possible that he was arguing "hey, you guys heard that whistle that rolled out, didn't you?"

Originally Posted by WhippetGrappler

I believe that Ryan was arguing that he thought the whistle blew as did his wrestler. Which is why Heflin stopped dead on the mat as Zeerip then spun around to the back and scored what was believed to be a takedown and later overruled.

I do think the ref totally blew this call. If he only awarded the escape and assumed the whistle blew, then time should have been added to the clock and both wrestlers should have been in the neutral position.

I haven't heard any public comments from Heflin as to what he heard. There is circumstantial evidence supporting that he heard a whistle. It's not the strongest case at this point.

I don't think any evidence has been presented at all that Ryan HEARD a whistle. For all we know he may have been TOLD there was a whistle which led to him referencing it in his post-match comments.

What I DO KNOW FOR A FACT is that, IF the whistle was blown by the ref, a full 12 seconds would have needed to be re-wrestled (not 10, not 8).

Originally Posted by WhippetGrappler

I believe that Ryan was arguing that he thought the whistle blew as did his wrestler. Which is why Heflin stopped dead on the mat as Zeerip then spun around to the back and scored what was believed to be a takedown and later overruled.

I do think the ref totally blew this call. If he only awarded the escape and assumed the whistle blew, then time should have been added to the clock and both wrestlers should have been in the neutral position.

Pass.

"I assume you have proof that Mr. Ryan has never lied or cheated in his life then."

I don't think I should either prove it or have the need to prove it? I think the accusers should have to prove what they contend.



"One could call just about anyone on this board a "lying cheat" without being libelous."

Maybe, maybe not. The law is still developing. That phrase wasn't uttered on this message board, at any rate. Also, there are a couple of message boards where such talk is not permitted.



"Take it easy Steve."

So let things pass. Nasty comments may be about friends (which has happened) and I should let it go? Sorry. If I reform to the type of cavalier attittude that you are suggesting, it will be sure to infect my own posts. That is not a happening I favor. Either stand by what you say, which means you can say it face to face or in a court of law, or stay silent.