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Discuss Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps) at the College Wrestling within the Wrestling Talk Forums; Brands behavior is no worse than what you see from many coaches. Is he more ...
  1. #91
    Round of 12 dback_5's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Brands behavior is no worse than what you see from many coaches. Is he more intense, yes, but to say that John Smith doesnt walk out on the mat, or KJ doesnt call officials over, or State Penn coach doesnt get fired up at the officials is laughable.

    Also, its well documented what the differences were between Brands and the other situation. Brands left for VT because Iowa went another direction and came back to Iowa with Weaver knowing all along that if Iowa opened up Brands was gone.

    I wont go into details as they are well known by now, but what he did to ISU and Bobby Douglas was horrid. I also understand making money and providing for your family, so thats no excuse. Could have, and should have been handled much more professionally.

  2. #92
    #1 Homer Herkey#1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    Didn't a Cael team beat a Brands team at nationals in 2007?
    I stand corrected. The team that Bobby Douglass handed over to him got second place in Caels first season. The Hawks finished eighth that year while all of Brands' recruits sat out a season for penalty from the transfer.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  3. #93
    Round of 12 dback_5's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    I stand corrected. The team that Bobby Douglass handed over to him got second place in Caels first season. The Hawks finished eighth that year while all of Brands' recruits sat out a season for penalty from the transfer.
    Funny, you almost make it sound like Douglas literally gladly handed his team over to him.......Hahaha.

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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Here's the problem with the Iowa blinders:

    Everyone not wearing them thinks the Brands leaving VT wasn't a whole lot different than Cael leaving Iowa State. For example, Cael brought three wrestlers with him from ISU, one his brother, and two red-shirting freshmen. Brands brought five wrestlers with him from VT. Which hurt the program the coach was leaving more?

    Everyone else thinks the Brands have the worst matside behavior in college wrestling. Not everyone is immune to bad behavior, but the Brands set the standard. Yeah, I know. You're right and everyone else in the college wrestling world is wrong.

    When you are wearing them, you think transferring wrestlers having to sit out a year unless they are released by their prior school is a "penalty" when it happens to Iowa transfers. It's not a penalty; it's the rule. And if you think VT was so peachy with Brands leaving, why did they not release all those wrestlers? That's right - because they were *not* ok with the move.

    You don't realize that the comparison to the Yankees isn't exactly correct. It's the Yankees with a really entitled attitude that is more apt.

  5. #95
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Notice in my post I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post

    I'm not saying the "bashing" is right or wrong, but I think it is less lopsided than you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by dback_5 View Post
    Brands behavior is no worse than what you see from many coaches. Is he more intense, yes, but to say that John Smith doesnt walk out on the mat, or KJ doesnt call officials over, or State Penn coach doesnt get fired up at the officials is laughable.

    Also, its well documented what the differences were between Brands and the other situation. Brands left for VT because Iowa went another direction and came back to Iowa with Weaver knowing all along that if Iowa opened up Brands was gone.

    I wont go into details as they are well known by now, but what he did to ISU and Bobby Douglas was horrid. I also understand making money and providing for your family, so thats no excuse. Could have, and should have been handled much more professionally.
    You said that the Brands take more bashing than anyone else. I was responding to that and talking about the QUANTITY of bashing, not if it were deserved or not. I tried to show you that was wrong. Would you care to comment on the quantity, since that is what you brought up? I told you where I thought it each coach got more of it.

  6. #96
    Round of 12 dback_5's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    The transfers really didnt come into my comparison. That really didnt have anything to do with it. Personally, I will believe the Parents of the Kids and the Kids before that snake Weaver, but if you choose to take the side of VT then thats your perogative. Of course VT didnt want to have Brands leave, he made them relevant for the first time ever and ever since. Without Brands VT is nothing to this day.

    The point I am trying to make is that the Brands and Iowa take unfair bashing. Thats all. Might not be as lopsided as one thinks, but it may be. Its all opinion, and thats mine. Personally, I think the wrestling community gives the State Penn coach a pass. His persona that he makes others believe does not coincide with his actions. Without being too blunt, the basically stabbed his coach and alma matter in the back and Baeled for the money, sold out to win a title and took in a troubled kid he knew should not have been on his own in PA, has no remorse for any of his actions and completely turned his back on his situation at ISU leaving the program in shambles, and YES ISU was once a great wrestling school, and he just rubs me the wrong way.

    Again, thats just my opinion, and people will disagree with me, but thats just what i think. God forbid if the Brands brothers ever did anything like this, they would be burned at the stake.

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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Again, you are entitled to your opinion but your opinion is based on nonsense.

    How did the VT team do when Brands was there? Not as well as they did before and after he was there. Were they ever ranked as high as #3 in the country when he coaching VT, as they were in January of 2011? Did they ever place higher than they did either before or after he was there? The answers to the second and third questions is "no". Brands was hardly a wunderkid at VT and we'll see how he does now that he doesn't have the pantry stocked with recruiting classes from two schools.

    How could Cael "leave the program in shambles" at ISU by taking one wrestler from their roster and two recruits? It's absurd. Even if you believe Taylor is better than Sorenson, Sorenson is obviously no slouch. And ISU is doing pretty well these days, despite the slight loss of quality at 165 that could be attributed to Cael.

    What will you say if PSU wins Big Tens and Nationals again this year, running Cael's streak against Brands to five? There's no Long and only one wrestler associated with Iowa State in any way earning points. You're going to have to make up new stuff.

    Cael has had success at PSU by doing what he thought he could do and others thought he could do - take recruits from PA and the neighboring states (Ohio, NJ, NY and Maryland) and build a powerhouse. He recognized the mine of talent that, if kept at home, could form a top program with the right coaching. Don't be hating.

  8. #98
    #1 Homer Herkey#1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    This thread is making me puke. Why can't we all just agree that Sanderson sucks and Brands rulez?
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    This thread is making me puke. Why can't we all just agree that Sanderson sucks and Brands rulez?
    I partially agree with Herkey. Let's let it go on the Sanderson/Brands knocks. It's been well-hashed in the past. That said, Herkey, I'm not sure, that I can go along with your terms of surrender. But I'll definitely go for a cease fire. How's that?

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