Originally Posted by dmo

BBL,

gymnastics would be a good example, don't know if swimming or track and field have team scores, but I imagine that they probably do.

Gymnastics has the team comp first then the next day they have the individual comp. Track does not do that.

Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion

This wasn't my statement, but I'll respond to it:
No, of course there would be some changes. Minny is looking much better than they did against Cornell, PSU much better than against Minny (among others). HOWEVER, the fact that most of the top teams wrestle each other weakens the argument for the need for the official National Duals.

There was another quote earlier that every coach's top priority should be to support the sport of wrestling and get (force?) the NCAA to adopt this format. No, the first priority of every coach is his team and the process of achieving both team and individual goals.

I'd enjoy working toward the duals as an official event. It would simplify the scheduling decisions that coaches have to make long before the season starts. I think that wrestling has made a positive step forward to making that a reality. However, no one will force the NCAA to do anything. Even the 0k gate money put out there is a joke compared to the BILLION dollar contracts for basketball (and nearly that for football).

this thread got me thinking, does this happen in any other sport? {An essentially individual sport holding a team championship tournament separate from the individual tournament} I don't think so any other sport does this, which might make acceptance at the administrative level even harder. Can anyone think of an example in another sport?

I think tennis does it now (but not when I was in college).

Originally Posted by kr1963

Chop do you think the finals would still draw 15K if Iowa, Iowa State or Northern Iowa were NOT in the Final Four? Also I have always felt that if it was not a NCAA sanctioned event that applied the same tournament seeding rules etc like the NCAA does in any other sport that somehow it opens the door for people not going & hence it is never quite a National Dual Championship.

Other states are now having HS Dual championships & Tournament championships. I would like to see the NCAA do that as well.

Personally the regional idea is nice but the NCAA tournament is done in 3 days I don't see why you could not do it all in 2 days with 16 teams seeded.

While I am disappointed PSU is not going I think the NCAA has to step in in order to make a mandatory event otherwise every year it's importance could change as a destination & lessen it.

I think it draws 15,000+ no matter who is in the Finals if the they are held in IA. IA fans will turn out just to watch wrestling as well as ISU, UNI and even MN. It is only about 4hrs from Minneapolis to Des Moines so I would think a vast majority of MN fans would attend the Finals. I think any wrestling event is better attended in the Midwest than anywhere else. This is why I love the NCAA's in St.Louis and wish they would just keep it there. It takes me 8 hrs to drive down to St.Louis but the weather is always nice and the area is setup perfect for this type of event.

Originally Posted by Chop

I think it draws 15,000+ no matter who is in the Finals if the they are held in IA. IA fans will turn out just to watch wrestling as well as ISU, UNI and even MN. It is only about 4hrs from Minneapolis to Des Moines so I would think a vast majority of MN fans would attend the Finals. I think any wrestling event is better attended in the Midwest than anywhere else. This is why I love the NCAA's in St.Louis and wish they would just keep it there. It takes me 8 hrs to drive down to St.Louis but the weather is always nice and the area is setup perfect for this type of event.

Philly set a NCAA attendance I think but I got your point. Good to know. I do like the even moving around however as I having a company does trade shows I enjoy the change of scenery.

I have been to several NCAA's and I still think St.Louis is the best location of all that I have been to. I have been to Cleveland, UNI, Carver Hawkeye, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, St.Louis, Omaha and others but St.Louis seems to be the best attended and most fun. I was wanted to go to Philly but didn't make it so I can't comment on the atmosphere or attendance. I did have friends go out to Albany, NY and they said it was not anywhere close to St.Louis for crowds or atmosphere. Just to let you know I am not that excited to have it in Des Moines, IA next year but of course I will go. I would imagine the attendance record will be shattered but I don't think Des Moines is setup as well as St.Louis.

Originally Posted by vaisforlovers

St Louis TF Philly. Absolutely nothing near the arena.

Not true. There is a football stadium right next door that also provides no restaurant, bar, or shopping opportunities.

The Philly city planners made the decision to put both buildings next to each other to improve driving traffic in and out of the area. Most local fans (which account for the vast majority in attendance in those buildings throughout the year) appreciate that. There was an alternative plan to put the arena near the art museum. Parking would have been much more difficult, but access to downtown Philly would have been much, much better. Oddly, the city probably would have benefited by the boost in restaurant/bar income as well as increased use of the public transportation system.

I understand the motivation to ease traffic, but I still think it was a whiff as far as social planning for the city. I have heard many many good things about St. Louis but haven't made it there for wrestling yet. I'm already looking forward to 2014 on Oklahoma City, but I have friends there. Des Moines has zero appeal for me.

Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion

Not true. There is a football stadium right next door that also provides no restaurant, bar, or shopping opportunities.

The Philly city planners made the decision to put both buildings next to each other to improve driving traffic in and out of the area. Most local fans (which account for the vast majority in attendance in those buildings throughout the year) appreciate that. There was an alternative plan to put the arena near the art museum. Parking would have been much more difficult, but access to downtown Philly would have been much, much better. Oddly, the city probably would have benefited by the boost in restaurant/bar income as well as increased use of the public transportation system.

I understand the motivation to ease traffic, but I still think it was a whiff as far as social planning for the city. I have heard many many good things about St. Louis but haven't made it there for wrestling yet. I'm already looking forward to 2014 on Oklahoma City, but I have friends there. Des Moines has zero appeal for me.

It was about a 5 minute subway ride from the arena to Center City Philadelphia. How much easier could it be? A location near the art museum is much less accessible. Personally, I loved the Philadelphia location and the tournament returns soon. I haven't eaten as well at Nationals ever (well, except for 1984, but I lived in Manhattan then and the Meadowlands was a short drive).