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Thread: Askren vs. Askren

  1. #10

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Yes, except Ben only scored 4 points. Normally he looks laid back and still bonuses you. He also took neutral when the match was 2-2. As if little bro could have ridden him? He was giving the kid a chance.

    No, I don't think he was wrestling the match like it was the D-1's. It looked to me more like a practice room go where they're both trying to win, but not so concerned with the score.

    And while he usually looks laid back and gets bonus points, he was wrestling the one guy in the country most used to wrestling him.

    It's still amazing what he accomplished despite not being a great athlete. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but is there any question that Max is a more gifted natural athlete? I was impressed with him in this match. Ben's grip has to frustrate the hell out of Max though. Max was in all day long, they'd get into that scramble, Ben would be hanging onto a leg and Max just couldn't break his grip. Herbert had the same issues(well, so has everyone, but Herbert's a pretty big dude himself).
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  2. #11

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    If a sense of balance is part of the equation for a good athelete then I would say Ben is the best I've seen in that part. Then throw in his grip and I think you have two of the most important components of athleticism for a wrestler. Plus his flexibility is awfully good, too. Not sure what you meant by Max being a better athelete, unless you mean he is probably better in more sports than Ben, or other athletic things like jumping high or running fast and things like that.

  3. #12

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger84 View Post

    It's still amazing what he accomplished despite not being a great athlete. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but is there any question that Max is a more gifted natural athlete? I was impressed with him in this match. Ben's grip has to frustrate the hell out of Max though. Max was in all day long, they'd get into that scramble, Ben would be hanging onto a leg and Max just couldn't break his grip. Herbert had the same issues(well, so has everyone, but Herbert's a pretty big dude himself).
    Why does every "natural athlete" have to have the attributes of speed, agility, etc? Just because the dude isn't quick as a cat, or strong as an ox doesn't mean he's not an athlete or an elite one at that.

    Doesn't knowing where you are in space at all times have any bearing on what athleticism is? Doesn't insane balance and flexibility deserve a seat at the "athletic" table?

    The guys a tremendous athlete, I think the term "athlete" has just been misused so much some people don't realize it.
    If you want to say "He's not very fast, he's not very graceful." That's an argument, sure, but "not athletic" isn't one.
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    If he looked like Jordan Burroughs everyone would be amazed by how athletic he is.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    If he looked like Jordan Burroughs everyone would be amazed by how athletic he is.
    Agree 100%.
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    If he looked like Jordan Burroughs everyone would be amazed by how athletic he is.
    No, if he was as quick and as explosive as Jordan Burroughs everyone would be amazed by how athletic he is.
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  7. #16

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    Regardless, people are foolish to say he's not athletic.
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Why does every "natural athlete" have to have the attributes of speed, agility, etc? Just because the dude isn't quick as a cat, or strong as an ox doesn't mean he's not an athlete or an elite one at that.

    Doesn't knowing where you are in space at all times have any bearing on what athleticism is? Doesn't insane balance and flexibility deserve a seat at the "athletic" table?

    The guys a tremendous athlete, I think the term "athlete" has just been misused so much some people don't realize it.
    If you want to say "He's not very fast, he's not very graceful." That's an argument, sure, but "not athletic" isn't one.


    You might need to point out to me where I said he was "not athletic." Generally, if one used quotes, one repeats verbatim what was said. Kiiiinda the point of quotes.

    I never said he wasn't a great athlete. Ben excelled more creating his own style of wrestling, being in better shape than everyone, in addition to great flexibility and a great grip. He was a four time finalist and two time champ, and an Olympian. I don't believe that in accomplishing all that he was ever the most athletic guy at his weights. Frankly, I find it more impressive how he did it.

    So, feel free to continue to mis-quote and distort what was actually said and try turning it around as some sort of insult, but it was anything but.
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  9. #18

    Default Re: Askren vs. Askren

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    If a sense of balance is part of the equation for a good athelete then I would say Ben is the best I've seen in that part. Then throw in his grip and I think you have two of the most important components of athleticism for a wrestler. Plus his flexibility is awfully good, too. Not sure what you meant by Max being a better athelete, unless you mean he is probably better in more sports than Ben, or other athletic things like jumping high or running fast and things like that.

    Yes, a sense of balance is obviously important, and Ben is a very good athlete. But to compete at the D-1 level and at the Olympic level, most are great, elite level athletes. Quickness, strength, explosion. Now his strength may be a bit misleading as he isn't built like some others, ie, Burroughs, or Herbert despite the fact that he apparently has an amazing grip.

    Ben didn't have that Burroughs like double leg(since apparently the only reason that people think he's more athletic than Askren is because of skin color..which I find ridiculous since Burroughs is one of the most athletic wrestlers I've ever seen).

    But with regard to Max, I guess I was just talking about some of the scrambles, the one time he kicks over. Maybe I do mean better at other sports, running, jumping, quickness, etc...

    Again, wasn't trying to insult Ben at all. I have more respect for wrestlers who win the way Ben did. That's a staple of our sport. Hard work, aggressiveness, creating his own style. I guess I always thought Ben won more as a result of that than his pure athletic ability. I've seen him wrestle for about 15 years, so I'm not basing it off this one match either.
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

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