Wiltz

Just as many VT fans were obnoxious.

ODH

Perhaps, and if they were both powerhouses I would probably be rooting against VT for the way their fans and administration acted. But they are trying to do something that we rarely see these days, which is trying to develop a top team at a non-tradional wrestling school. Brands really set the effort back and was very callous about it.

Trusty

I would have to kindly disagree with ya ODH, Brands did not set the effort back, in fact I would have to say Brands was a major reason VT is heading in the direction they are today...positive.

gg121and2

I've tried very hard not to get drawn into this thread - but I just can't help myself. We're talking about, arguably, the greatest college coach (all sports) in American history and his - as yet - unproven protege.

First, I'll concede that University of Iowa wrestling fans are perhaps the most obnoxious fans (again - all sports) in the country. And yes - most of us feel that it's "normal" for the Hawks to be at the top of the heap at least 2 out of every 3 years (20 titles in 30 years - you do the math). We're not prepared to accept less than that. Pretty arrogant, I know.

Second, I believe that Gable only had the top-rated recruiting class two or three times in 20 years. That would seem to imply that every year he was winning those championships by beating teams with more highly touted lineups. Wiltz and a few others have mentioned some of those typical "Gable kids" that won NCAA titles like Whitmer and Weber, but I can't believe no one has talked about Mark Ironside as the ultimate example of what Gable could do for a kid. Yes - he was a 2X state champion, but a couple of times during high school when Iowa City High wrestled Cedar Rapids Jefferson, City would move McGinness up to face Ironside and Jeff would dominate Mark just like he did everyone else. Now fast forward to the 1996 NWCA all-star meet when Ironside wrestled the guy recently named as the best high school wrestler of the past 20 years, Cary Kolat. If you were there, you know that Ironside won that match because, on that night, he was mentally tougher than Kolat.

Finally, you need to have read or heard more of Gable's comments over the years than this one to fully appreciate what he is saying. When 2 wrestlers of relatively equal talent and training face each other - the one who is mentally tougher will win.

ODH

That is highly debatable. The VTech administration by hiring Brands started them on their way. Brands had one excellent recruiting year and then stripped the cupboard bare when he left. The administration decided to continue to support wrestling and made another great hire with Dresser and the program looks to be still progressing. I can't see how Brands really gets any credit for this.

I understand people's bitterness towrd VTech on the transfer issue, but at least they have not backed off on supporting the team.

ODH

Agreed. I think Iowa fans have had a hard time accepting that their wrestlers just did not have the talent in the last few years and have blamed it on not having the right attitude and now not buying into the program

ODH

I am just curious: How many of those other years did he have a 2nd ranked or even top five ranked class?
The legend of Gable would have me beieve that usually his recruits would not amount to a top ten class.

Either way what he did amazing and I agree that he may be the best coach ever in any sport. I am still rooting against Iowa.

TLV

Yep, Gable is the real deal. He CAN take less talented athletes and turn them into AAs and National Champions..........that is his particular talent as a coach. It is also a talent that JRob has. As long as both those guys are coaching, Minny and the Hawks are going to be dominating.

__________________
The Art of living is more like wrestling than dancing.

gg121and2

That'll take me some time to research. I'll look into it, but probably won't have anything until Monday or Tuesday.

gg121and2

This is somewhat, but not entirely, correct. You weren't sitting there through all of those Ty Eustice matches, knowing that he was the better wrestler and knowing that he could score whenever he wanted and agonizing because you could see that he just didn't believe in himself enough to pull the trigger.

You're also wrong if you believe that we didn't know we weren't even contending in the recruiting wars. Believe it or not, we (corn-fed hicks that we are) may actually know a thing or two about college wrestling.

As I said earlier, Tom B is, as yet, unproven. Gable is not. Let's see what happens in the next 2 - 3 years.